Episode 85–Why teachers are quitting

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie. [00:00:01] Speaker B: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children. What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help, and topics related to other learning disabilities will all be covered in this podcast. Parents are not alone, and we want to give voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having. This is a safe place to learn more about how to help her children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation. [00:00:34] Speaker A: Hi, everybody. Welcome to episode 85 of Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're going to start today's episode like we have every single week, and that is with the concept of the week. So concept of the week is our opportunity as practitioners to kind of peel back the curtain a bit and let everyone into an intervention session. We like to teach about things that either we would be directly teaching to our students or their parents and families. So today's concept of the week is burnout. Okay. [00:01:10] Speaker B: This is like a hot topic the world. So I think it's good to define it. [00:01:15] Speaker A: I think it is really good to define it. And I think it is also both over and underused at the same time. So burnout. What burnout is, is a state of severe emotional, mental, and physical exhaustion caused by prolonged, unmanaged stress. It typically arrives from work caretaking and overwhelming responsibilities. So burnout is very, very real. Don't let people tell you it's not. It's real and it is a. It is severe. So it's not like, oh, man, I'm so burnt out from my one bad day. No, that's not burnout. Um, but it is. It is really. I do think it is overused and underused at the same time. [00:02:20] Speaker B: I think it's used more for work. [00:02:23] Speaker A: Yep. [00:02:24] Speaker B: It seems like that's been like, the hot. [00:02:26] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:27] Speaker B: Topic at, like, work sites and work mental health and stuff. [00:02:31] Speaker A: Yep. [00:02:32] Speaker B: And I don't think sometimes the caretaking and the other responsibilities sometimes get as much 100% notice. [00:02:41] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. And absolutely. I think that's true. And I think, you know, it does. It does affect both women and men, but they do find it's kind of like at different stages of life. [00:02:58] Speaker B: Correct. [00:02:59] Speaker A: Like older women. Surprise, surprise. I wonder why. Wonder why, Wonder why, Wonder why. [00:03:06] Speaker B: My goodness. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. So weird. But, yeah, it. It's real. [00:03:16] Speaker B: So we Decided to talk about a little bit of a. A topic that might be a little [00:03:24] Speaker A: bit hot, but somebody's coming in hot today. And that somebody is me. [00:03:31] Speaker B: So episode 85 is why teachers are quitting. We thought we should really recognize that this is happening in our world today. [00:03:42] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:43] Speaker B: And, and why this is happening. And I don't think we really have a reason how to help, but we. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Oh, I have some ideas. [00:03:56] Speaker B: But we do have. We wanted people to understand why. Yeah, the why behind. [00:04:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the, you know, the number one reason I don't think will surprise anybody, truly the number one reason teachers are quitting is extreme stress and burnout. You know, this burnout comes from a combination of completely unmanageable workloads, increasing student behaviors because we don't have the actual support teachers in place because they burned out about five to 10 years ago. And now you've got your regular ed teachers who stuck it out that are in a really bad way. And a lack of support from admin, which really anytime that is going on, you know, the admin they can just kind of outweigh and they can act like it's, it's a breaking point. And guess what? Teachers don't make that much money. Okay. [00:05:05] Speaker B: Right. [00:05:06] Speaker A: So the, the lack of compensation, which most teachers do understand the field they are getting in. [00:05:13] Speaker B: Right. And they understand that. [00:05:15] Speaker A: They understand that trust and believe we knew what we were getting into. That doesn't mean we're punching bags. [00:05:21] Speaker B: Right. And I think because of the overwhelming workloads in the student behavior and the lack of support that is going to create that breaking point for teachers because they did know that the low compensation was there. [00:05:36] Speaker A: But yes. [00:05:37] Speaker B: You also that the calculus was different. [00:05:40] Speaker A: The calculus and the landscape was different. Um, you know, and we became punching bags. Really. [00:05:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Kind of like a self care. [00:05:55] Speaker A: Well, exactly. That, exactly. [00:05:57] Speaker B: That kind of became a thing. And unfortunately that's kind of how the world went. [00:06:01] Speaker A: Right. [00:06:02] Speaker B: And obviously Covid ID COVID 19 worsened these conditions. And the research shows that 78% of teachers consider leaving due to stress, student behavior and feeling disc or undervalued very much. Especially after the pandemic. [00:06:25] Speaker A: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You know, and there was just this overwhelming, I think both with teachers and with healthcare workers, there was this idea of like, oh, you're a superhero. And it was like, so that means I'm just supposed to take it like the, like the underlying. That was like. So you're just supposed to take it. Yuck. Yeah, yuck. There's only so much of that People can take because. No, I'm not. I'm just a person. [00:07:02] Speaker B: Exactly. So some of the working conditions, overcrowded classrooms are very common right now. That used to not be as much like when we were kids a long time ago. You know, there's more stress in the environment. They have to work longer hours and they're starting to feel more overwhelmed and burnt out because of that. [00:07:29] Speaker A: You know, the pace is so much faster and they are expected to do more with less over and over and over again. You know. Yeah, we've talked about this already. But the low compensation. Right. The salaries are not keeping up with the rising cost of living. 81% of teachers saying that their pay is not keeping pace. 84% of teachers are unable to avoid living near their school. [00:08:02] Speaker B: That's wow. Because that's a big number. And I mean when we were younger, all of the teachers lived in the neighborhood. [00:08:11] Speaker A: They lived in the neighborhood. [00:08:13] Speaker B: And now they don't anymore. [00:08:14] Speaker A: And now they don't. And in some places it was required that they live in the district. [00:08:18] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:08:19] Speaker A: Taught in. And I have some conflicted thinking about that too. Right. But it was much, much, it was much, much different. [00:08:31] Speaker B: Right. So long said that is the lack of administrative support. You know, they report, teachers report that they're managing more challenging student behaviors now more than ever. They don't have autonomy anymore. And they're following, you know, environments that are toxic. People are. That's another way it's not a friendly environment. [00:08:57] Speaker A: Exactly. You know, and that whole like toxic work environment again, I think is like sometimes really overused and sometimes not used when it really is accurate. Not surprisingly, again. Right. Political and social pressures, you know, and I don't necessarily just mean political like what party affiliation you mean. Right, right. We're talking about like the body politics. So about like political and social pressure, increased scrutiny from parents and community members. Um, I can speak to that pretty personally. People just assume how you feel about something based on your profession, which is kind of just crazy to me. I've always been very confused about that. You know, leading that can feel like you're being micromanaged and demoralized. There was a lot of like deprofessionalization of teachers. Like a lot of just you're just a teacher. What do you know, kind of a tone that is very real. [00:10:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:21] Speaker A: And I've heard it over and over and over from me personally have experienced it. And most of my colleagues can speak to that as well. [00:10:32] Speaker B: And they said high levels of job related stress is double that of other professions right now, and that leads to your emotional exhaustion. Also, a significant number of new teachers are leaving because they don't have mentoring. Yes. There's not enough time in a day for a teacher to mentor another teacher because they're really busy with their own classroom. And then the experienced teachers are leaving because of the burnout and that they cannot. They don't feel like they're doing quality education anymore. [00:11:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:11:05] Speaker B: Which you can really see kind of a catch 22 going on there. [00:11:09] Speaker A: Exactly. You can really, really see how pervasive and cyclical. [00:11:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:16] Speaker A: This problem is. I mean, there's a teacher shortage. So there are like a lot of incentives right now for becoming certified teacher because there's such a short. I mean, there's been a special ed teachers shortage for many years now, but now there is additionally a shortage of general ed teachers. And now you have no one to actually train them. [00:11:45] Speaker B: Correct. [00:11:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:46] Speaker B: And how do you get better at teaching? By being mentored. [00:11:49] Speaker A: By being mentored. By being. Right, that. I mean, absolutely. [00:11:53] Speaker B: Yeah. A study, a survey in 2025 from the center of American Progress showed that roughly 7 out of 10 early career teachers abandoned or considering leaving the classroom within the first five years of teaching. [00:12:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:10] Speaker B: That's pretty significant. [00:12:12] Speaker A: That's huge. I mean, that used to be something in the realm of like four out of ten. [00:12:16] Speaker B: Just. Yeah. [00:12:17] Speaker A: By the way, about 12 years ago or so, it was like four. Four out of ten. [00:12:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:21] Speaker A: That would consider. Within the first five years. Yeah. And it wasn't for these reasons. It was for different reasons. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah. They were usually different reasons. [00:12:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:34] Speaker B: Some key factors that might be impacting is obviously the safety concerns. If there's more behaviors in your classroom. You know, educators report getting cursed at, hit, assaulted, and so they're. They fear their own safety. Yeah. [00:12:51] Speaker A: And then there's not support. So they're like, you're getting hit and you're kind of like, well, that's a bummer. Like, no, no, that's not a bummer. That's my physical safety. [00:13:04] Speaker B: Which comes to our next point of the no consequence culture right now, where administration doesn't do anything with the behavior or there's no repercussions for the behavior. And so that frustrates teachers because there's nothing they can do to stop that physical. [00:13:22] Speaker A: You're just told to redirect the dangerous behavior. And that's just frankly unacceptable. [00:13:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:32] Speaker A: And it. It's like this perceived. I think what makes this gross too, is it's the admin not backing up the teachers, which is Gross. Makes me all kinds of mad. And then it's also this, like, admin being afraid to tell parents that their kid is a behavior problem. And that is a problem. So it's not just one layer. It's many layers. [00:14:07] Speaker B: And then those behaviors in the classroom makes it really impossible to teach. Right. Because. Yeah, there's no. Even if you have students that want to learn, they can't because there's somebody having a behavior. [00:14:19] Speaker A: Right. If you have a teacher who's unable to step in, their classroom is total anarchy. Like, the kids are in charge. And listen, kids should not be in charge of a classroom. That's not the way it should be. Kids brains are not even set up to be in charge. Like, no adults need to be the adults here. And I'm just gonna call that really bluntly. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And that gives us more mental health strain. And that's what teachers are saying their primary reason is leaving. And what is interesting is the trend affects educators of all age groups. Not even a certain age group. Right, Correct. Like it's across elementary, middle, high school. Yeah, like it's across it. [00:15:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And you've got teachers who've been teaching 20, 30 years and in the last five have said, this is out of control. Like, this is bizarrely out of control. What have we done? [00:15:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:28] Speaker A: You know, listen, it's not just that, like, have kids changed? Sure, kids have changed. But also the way we have dealt with these situations has changed. Change, too. And hey, friends, not for the better. Right. [00:15:45] Speaker B: I also think, too, the more mental health issues that students are showing more increases those behaviors. But I also think there's a lack maybe of education or support for teachers in those mental health. [00:15:59] Speaker A: Very much issues. [00:16:01] Speaker B: And so they are not able to deal with that. [00:16:05] Speaker A: Yeah, very much. [00:16:06] Speaker B: I mean, because that's not their background. [00:16:08] Speaker A: Correct, Correct. I mean, that's. I absolutely. I mean, I obviously, okay, I am a teacher. I have a heart for teachers. And I have also a mom. So I have a heart for parents. And it's very difficult. It's a very difficult road to walk. You know what we hear, it's kind of. It's kind of a good problem for Nicole and I, because Nicole and I get a lot of extremely talented educators who come to us and want a job for all of these reasons that we have just talked about and worries me greatly. Like, yay, now we have excellent teachers that work for us. Good. That's a good thing for us. But all of these excellent teachers have fled. Not just the public schools, the private schools, too. It's not just happening in public schools. This is happening every. [00:17:16] Speaker B: All ages, all stages, all environments, it seems like. [00:17:20] Speaker A: So when all of our talented educators leave, what are we going to do? What are we going to do now? Right. And now we are honestly in a place where. Okay, now what? Because the ones who left are gone. [00:17:36] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:36] Speaker A: The ones who are here now really don't know what they're doing. And obviously I am. Broad strokes, right? There are still extremely dedicated, talented teachers [00:17:49] Speaker B: still that are supporting them. [00:17:52] Speaker A: Correct? Correct. Supportive administrators do actually exist. I have worked for them. So it's. This is obviously broad strokes and very biased. This is my very biased view of what's going on. I do not. [00:18:08] Speaker B: I try to stay with the research, [00:18:10] Speaker A: but yeah, um, I usually do, but not today. [00:18:15] Speaker B: But the research is showing that these mental health issues are impacting other students, which causes more mental health issues. And we're kind of also in a. [00:18:28] Speaker A: How do you expect a kid to behave when there is no behavior expectation? [00:18:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:34] Speaker A: And I do think this really primarily does come down to behavioral expectations and not setting very firm boundaries within your classroom. And sometimes it's because teachers feel like they can't. But some of the issues, I mean, we've been having some behavior issues with my second grader this year where he is, I mean, of course I think this. But he's a very good kid. He really is a very good. He's sweetheart. He is a kind hearted kid who does well when he can. But he is extremely influenced by other peers and he can be extremely silly. And so he is so, so silly. When it's not appropriate to be silly and he can distract his peers. That's not okay. [00:19:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:31] Speaker A: And there's one peer in particular. They're little buddies who. The two of them together are a terrible combination. They should not be put together and they're just allowed to be together. Despite many times of us saying like this is not a bit, this is not a good idea and the counselor has said it's not a good idea, you know, and they're just like allowed to do this. And when I did have a conversation with their teacher, like, so what actually is the consequence for when they don't listen to you? Because trust and believe there are consequences at home. Right. It's not just always, ah, the parents have no rules. Trust me, friends, I have rules. I absolutely have rules in my home. And that doesn't mean my kids don't break them sometimes, but when they do, there are consequences. So I said, what is the consequence? And she says, well, I emailed you. This is not a consequence. This is not a consequence. Like losing recess is a consequence. Right. Doing something else that he doesn't want to do, that is a consequence. Correct. Calling me not a consequence. That's not it. [00:20:48] Speaker B: By the time he gets home, he's gonna forget what he's been in trouble for. [00:20:52] Speaker A: Totally not. That's not. [00:20:54] Speaker B: He doesn't connect that anymore. [00:20:56] Speaker A: So he's learned. Cool. I can walk all over you. I can do whatever I want. And that is basically what's happening. That doesn't mean I'm fine with it. I'm not fine with it. He's not learning what he needs to learn. [00:21:10] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:21:11] Speaker A: And the rest of the class is missing out too. It's not cool. [00:21:13] Speaker B: Right. And I think that goes back to that mentorship. Because newer teachers, I think, do not have that mentorship. [00:21:22] Speaker A: They do not. [00:21:23] Speaker B: And they don't know how to set those boundaries. [00:21:25] Speaker A: Correct. [00:21:26] Speaker B: What is a consequence I can have in my class. [00:21:29] Speaker A: Right. And I do think the teacher, he has, I think has some really. I do think she's got some good potential here. And I kinda had to step in. I said, she's like, well, I wasn't really sure how you would feel if I gave him a consequence. And I was like, I would feel great. But you shouldn't be thinking about that. That's not for you to think about. Right. Your. Your job is to protect your classroom and what is going on in it. Your job isn't to think about, oh, what is mommy gonna think if I punish little precious? Like, I don't. That's not it. That's not your job. [00:22:08] Speaker B: But I think that's kind of what society has very turned towards. [00:22:12] Speaker A: Totally. [00:22:13] Speaker B: And unfortunately, that gives them less. [00:22:17] Speaker A: It gives them less authority. It diminishes the teacher's approach. Authority. [00:22:20] Speaker B: Correct. [00:22:21] Speaker A: And while I don't want schools to swing so far in the authoritarian Right. Position. Right. Like no school shouldn't be, you know, 12 little girls in two straight lines. Right. Like, Right. [00:22:36] Speaker B: The old school. [00:22:36] Speaker A: Madeline. [00:22:38] Speaker B: That's not. [00:22:39] Speaker A: That's not it. That's not what I'm aiming for. But anarchy is not okay. This is not working. And I think it's really time to have some actual real conversations about. We actually do know what has worked. [00:22:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:22:56] Speaker A: Actually, there have been several times in our school history that we've had great behavior data. We do know what works. And we need to go back to what did work. Yeah. [00:23:09] Speaker B: Yeah. The deviation from evidence based practice. [00:23:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:23:15] Speaker B: Is getting us on a bad track. [00:23:17] Speaker A: Absolutely. You know, and the fear of it all too, like. And this spills out everywhere in our personal conversations and our professional conversations. Like, I can't dream of saying something that would possibly offend somebody, so I'm not gonna say anything at all. That's problematic. That's problematic. I am absolutely not saying go around offending people. Absolutely not. I think listeners know and trust me enough by now. Right. That's not what I'm about. There are things you do not say and cannot say in all the things. [00:23:57] Speaker B: I mean, this happened to me yesterday and today. I mean, Maggie and our ot, very straightforward. They didn't miss words about my son and his development and that it's not really on track. And yes, I know that as a mom, but I. [00:24:20] Speaker A: But it's different when it's your kid. [00:24:22] Speaker B: But hearing it from somebody else makes you really have to think about it more. [00:24:27] Speaker A: Yes. And so we're missing how to have those cars conversations. [00:24:33] Speaker B: And so if you can't have those hard conversations, that's not good for the student or the kids either, because how are you going to get them what they need? [00:24:42] Speaker A: Oh, totally that. Right, Totally that. And yeah, it stinks. It stinks to be the on the receiving end of getting a hard conversation. Right. And it stinks to be the one directing a hard conversation. [00:24:55] Speaker B: Especially when it's somebody you're like, I like them, I know them. I don't want to say them. [00:25:01] Speaker A: It's harder. It's harder. [00:25:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:04] Speaker A: But it's really necessary. And I think at the root of this, like, this has a lot to do with why teachers are leaving. Absolutely. It does. [00:25:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:15] Speaker A: And we've got to get back to a place where we can do this with each other. Exactly. We have been there before. We can get there again. But it's ugly right now. Yeah, it's ugly. And you know, listen, teachers, do you want to come our way? Nicole and I are happy to have you. [00:25:34] Speaker B: Thousand percent plugin. [00:25:37] Speaker A: We are happy to have you. Some of our most amazing. All of our managers left one school building that was not a good environment to be in, you know, but again, I'm very interested in how do we make those school buildings not toxic anymore, [00:25:56] Speaker B: because that's going to be the best for everybody. [00:25:59] Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, when we can invest in our schools, and I don't care. Public, private, all of them. When we invest in our schools and our public education is strong, then so too is our private education system. [00:26:18] Speaker B: Correct. [00:26:19] Speaker A: And everything is functioning much better. You know, strong public schools benefit absolutely everybody in the community, whether you're whether you choose to send your kids there or not. And that's the real truth of it. So, yeah, it's. It's a hard conversation. [00:26:41] Speaker B: We're not going to be able to solve this one today, though. [00:26:45] Speaker A: No, not today. Not today. But I think having real conversations like this does help and start to move the needle towards building something better. Right, Right. It's like protest when you don't like something. Okay. We, as Americans, we have the right to protest, and that's great, but is it enough? No, it's not. No, it's not. Because you need to also think about, well, what does. What does make that better. You have a right to be like, I don't like this. And that's good and powerful. We wouldn't have civil rights if we didn't have protest. Right, right. But also, if no one had a plan for, hey, by the way, this is actually what it could look like. [00:27:31] Speaker B: Then you're stuck. [00:27:32] Speaker A: Then we really wouldn't have been anywhere. Exactly. So it's both. I think having these conversations is important. And, you know, I sometimes do and sometimes don't have issues. Being the one to say something dependent can get me in trouble sometimes. But also, it's important, and sometimes things need to be said. [00:28:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:04] Speaker B: So, Maggie, what's happening beyond dyslexia? [00:28:07] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. So many things. So my kids are on spring break this week. I'm appreciating their classroom teachers a whole lot this week. I don't know what this is, but I swear, every single time my kids have spring break, like, the weather is the crappiest. [00:28:29] Speaker B: I know. I don't. It's like either or like around here for Easter. [00:28:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:35] Speaker B: In Wisconsin, it's either really, really nice or really, really not nice. [00:28:39] Speaker A: Yep. [00:28:39] Speaker B: There's no in between. [00:28:40] Speaker A: Yep. It's like this. Well, Monday at least was a nice day. They got to play outside a lot on Monday, thank goodness. You know, and yesterday was tolerable, but still cold. Like, it was like 36 degrees yesterday, which is still cold for. For March. It's, you know, average, but on the. On the colder side of average. And when it's just a tough pill to swallow when it was like 80 on Sunday. And that is Wisconsin. And that is Wisconsin. So I am feeling the like, oh, these kids are home. And I tried to work from home Monday through Wednesday as we record this. This is a Thursday. I tried to work from home Monday through Wednesday. [00:29:31] Speaker B: And then she was here. [00:29:32] Speaker A: And then I wonder why. I wonder why. [00:29:34] Speaker B: I wonder why. [00:29:35] Speaker A: Correlation. I think yes. What's going on with you, Nicole? [00:29:42] Speaker B: Well, we're having the. Every holiday conversation at our house where. Oh, yes, I love my husband, but he's not really very into holidays and doesn't understand why the rest of us are. And so last night, my 13 year old, she's got a plan because she's the only one in our house that knows anything about magical beings. [00:30:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:30:15] Speaker B: And so she wanted us to color with her. [00:30:22] Speaker A: Oh, dear. [00:30:22] Speaker B: And so I did. My husband did not. And so it's just interesting, the different perspectives of. I get excited for holidays and I. I'm fine, like, doing all the extra stuff. [00:30:34] Speaker A: But. [00:30:35] Speaker B: Yeah. What a scrooge he is. [00:30:39] Speaker A: What a scrooge. Chris, you're a scrooge. Yeah. Hope you're listening. [00:30:44] Speaker B: And my kids love it. And it's. It's really hard because I'm like, trying to be like, okay, I'll support this, but then I gotta go. Then it becomes just me. Like, oh, no. [00:30:55] Speaker A: I was, like, frustrated. That's frustrating. Yeah, I think, yeah. Easter this year is just gonna be a hard one for us. Just with the recent loss of grandma, we're just not at all in holiday spirit. But, you know, the coloring the eggs is still an important thing. So, like, yeah, we're still gonna do that. We will have people over at our house on Sunday. But it's just gonna be such a different vibe. But it's hard when you don't. When your partner's not, like, in step. [00:31:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:36] Speaker A: I don't know. I will admit fully that usually it is not me that is procuring the contents of baskets. Because, honestly, if it was up to me, it's not that I don't care about the holidays. I just am a. Like, I'm so not a stuff kind of person. [00:32:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:32:02] Speaker A: So I very strongly dislike any stupid plastic toy that's just gonna break in two seconds. Like, I would just rather not bring it into my house at all. [00:32:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:15] Speaker A: So I can be kind of curmudgeonly about that stuff. And I'm also like, no. One bag of candy is like, enough and you guys can share. Like, I don't. I just. I just. It's like that stuff that kind of just goes right through me. I mean, it's kind of the reason in our house we don't. We don't do birthday presents. Like, we don't buy birthday presents for our kids. What we do is they pick a thing to do and then we go do it. So I think it's. It's hard for me to fight the, like, I don't want all that junk in my house. And they're not even gonna remember that they even got it in the first place. Just saying. But my husband was the only child and the amount of things that he received, I was like, okay, well, we don't have to replicate that. Can we meet in the middle somewhere? And I'm usually like, yeah, you, you go procure the things. I'm gonna be hands off. Whatever. Okay, whatever. That's your deal. So that's life. Well, thank you everybody. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or you would like us to discuss a topic. If you do like our show, be sure to follow us and give us a rating on your favorite podcast player. That follow and rating. That is really, really, really how we reach more listeners and then we get to help more families. So thank you, everybody. [00:33:50] Speaker B: Thank you.