Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children.
What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will also be covered in this podcast.
Parents are not alone, and we want to give voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having.
This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation.
[00:00:36] Speaker A: Hi, everybody.
So we're gonna start today like we do every day, with our concept of the week. Concept of the week is our opportunity to kind of peel back that curtain a little bit and let our listeners into an intervention session. So we like to teach about topics that. That we would teach to our students, actually, in an intervention session. So today's concept of the week is a review, actually, from last week, and it's the term stuck.
This term stuck means rigid. In our minds.
When we're stuck, we don't have choices, and we need to use strategies to become unstuck as long as we can't move forward in decision making.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Agreed.
So welcome to episode 46, part of our summer series on executive functioning, why we need to be flexible.
Yes.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: This is the sixth episode, actually, of our summer series on executive functioning.
So far this summer, we've discussed family expectations and goal setting. We've discussed emotional identification and also coping skills. And we've discussed flexibility, rigidity, and being stuck.
Last week, we talked about the how to be flexible. And this week we are really getting into the why to be flexible.
So kind of our goal here. Right? Kind of our goal why plan do check framework that we've been doing all summer long.
Our goal is to develop that intrinsic motivation in our kids for being flexible. We want to give our kids concrete examples of how being flexible can get them what they want and ultimately lead to more independence and I'll add, like, privileges in the home, correct?
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Yes.
So why the why of our.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: Goal? Why plan do check.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Thank you. It's been a day.
The why part is because being flexible gives us more choices and we get more of our needs being met.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. So our plan is to have a plan A and a plan B demonstrate areas of compromise, identify things when they're a little or a big deal, and then really hone in on the fact that we do have choices, even when it kind of feels like we don't.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: Correct.
And the do is practice being flexible in different situations and definitely modeling the flexibility for our kids.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: Absolutely. And as always, the check part, I think that's such an important part of this framework, that goal plan. Why do check? I think I messed the order up there.
That's why we check. Right, Right. How did that go? What are the next steps? We're always, to the extent that is possible, doing that check with our kids a lot of times out loud, how did it go?
What are our next steps?
Where do we go from here?
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Correct.
Yes.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: So what is it?
When what I want is impossible?
[00:04:27] Speaker A: Rough.
Rough is what that is, Nicole.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: Yes, that is.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
Right. We really need to teach our kids. Right. What do they do when what I want is impossible? Something that can't happen either can't happen right now or isn't going to happen at all.
You know, a way I like to frame this up with both my kids at home and my kids who I see here at the center is having your child think about a time when they wanted something they could not have.
Kids are very good at coming up with their own examples here.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: True. Very true.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: You know, some possibilities. Not getting the snack they wanted, not getting to sit in their preferred seat, in the car, in the table, or.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Next to the person they want to sit next to.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: Oh, yes. That's a big thing. That's a big thing. Yeah.
Getting up, just not being allowed to stay late. Right, right.
[00:05:40] Speaker B: That's a hard one.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: Or where to sleep in. Sleep in. Right.
Either go somewhere. Right. Somewhere they don't want to go, or leave somewhere they do want to be. Right. Most kids and adults can think of many situations where what they want is not a possibility.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Correct.
So to our kids, these situations feel like they don't have a choice, which can lead to all sorts of things and problems.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:06:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
I don't think there is a human alive who cannot relate to this on some level. Right. Like parent or not, teacher or not.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Right. This is really relatable and we really want to retrain our brains into recognizing that, in fact, there are two choices. Right. When what we want is impossible, we have two choices. We can choose to be stuck or we can choose to move to a plan B.
[00:06:53] Speaker B: Correct.
So an example is I don't get the snack that I want.
So choice one. I get stuck and I go hungry and I feel sad, mad, bummed, angry, frustrated, etcetera, etc, etcetera.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: You know, And Even the extension there is like, then what happens after that?
[00:07:18] Speaker B: Right.
Because now you're hangry.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: Yes.
Hangry is a real thing in my house.
[00:07:25] Speaker B: Mine too.
[00:07:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Yes.
And that. And then that is demonstrated in different types of behaviors that we don't always approve of.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: So choice two is plan B. Choose a different snack and then you feel satisfied, happy, settled, and you don't get hangry.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, and notice, Right. This doesn't mean.
Well, this is the perfect solution. And I feel all the way better now.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Right.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: It just means, okay, I've chosen a different way to fill a need.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: So. Yeah. I had a student yesterday who grabbed. We have snacks in our centers, and he grabbed two packages.
He loves them of gummy.
Oh, yes, gummies.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: And he opened the first one and it looked funny and he put one in his mouth and he was like, so he had to throw it away. So I don't know if there was like a hole in the package, like in the box or something, because it was a brand new box.
And he looked at me, he's like, I don't think I should open the other one yet. And so he changed his mind and he went for the fish.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Yeah, the goldfish.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: So that was a good way to do it. But.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: Yeah, but he had.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: But he made plan B and he actually implemented it. So. So that was actually very good.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Good for him.
Yeah, that's really hard to do because.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: That'S his favorite things. And he. He does tell me when I don't have enough treats for him.
[00:09:04] Speaker A: You do. You do do that, you know, and practice does not make perfect.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: You know, practice makes automaticity.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Kids and adults need to practice this a lot with a lot of scenarios.
[00:09:28] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: And I really do have my kids think these things out in really long form. Right.
I really wanted to play Connect 4, but the game is broken.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: So choice one would be.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: Choice one, get stuck, throw a fit. Right.
Feel angry.
You know, secondary consequences come from that as well.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: You know, or choice two.
There could be a lot of different things. And it's really fun to have kids brainstorm this.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Right, Right.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: You could choose a different game, you could choose a different activity altogether.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: There's a lot of options, you know, and also, please, if the game is actually broken, let's not put it back in the game cabinet.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: So we can have this discussion again later.
Just, you know, just saying, just saying.
[00:10:31] Speaker A: You know, for an older student. Right. Just because our kids get older does not mean this problem goes away.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:10:40] Speaker A: Right. I really Wanted to go out with my friend, but my sibling has the car that we share.
Right. You know, choice one, be stuck, not get to go, not do.
You know, maybe not see that friend at all. Right. Choice two, maybe there's a plan B to be had here.
Maybe there is a different way to accomplish hanging out with that friend. Maybe it's not going to happen that evening, but maybe it could happen the next day or the next morning. Maybe there is a different way to accomplish you still being able to hang out with your friend even if, you know, you thought you were going to have your car and your siblings. Okay. Right.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: Maybe your friend can come get you.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: Maybe you can FaceTime.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Right. Maybe you can ask real nicely and a parent will facilitate that. Beat up.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: Correct.
So there's definitely a lot of different options. But if your first go to is to get stuck, you can't even think of the options. That's right.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: That's right. Hence stuck. Right.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: I do like a script because I think it helps parents and kids really get on the same page with each other.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: So kind of a possible script to use at home is, you know, sometimes when we. Sometimes what we want just isn't possible.
And how are we going to feel when we get stuck?
How are we going to feel if we are flexible?
[00:12:12] Speaker B: Exactly.
And talking to your children about this before it happens is always the best practice.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. You know, I know we have said this in previous episodes, but the time to have this conversation is not while your child is stuck.
Nothing is happening when your child is stuck. When your child is stuck, they are right in that cannot make a decision zone.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:12:47] Speaker A: And they really can't be reasoned with.
One of my first boss in education, actually, I still think so much about her guidance. She was just an excellent boss and just a really good person.
But she once said to me very point blank, you know, Maggie, you cannot reason with an unreasonable person.
And I think I often call back to that and go, okay, at this moment my child is unreasonable and I cannot reason with them. That is an exercise in futility.
So I need to wait until they are unstuck to have that conversation. So all of these scenarios are like priming the pump for our kids. This is not a reaction to a scenario they've already experienced.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: Right.
So a quick parenting self assessment.
How often do I specifically praise my child for doing good, using good flexible skills daily, Weekly?
Never.
Just think about that in your own heads.
I try to do it daily.
Although sometimes when you're tired, things are Going astray.
It doesn't happen every day.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I think this is such a. I like this little quick self assessment because I would love to say daily, but I'm not sure if that's true of me right now.
You know, I think this is like having some grace and space for your own self as a parent.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:49] Speaker A: You know, I don't know that that's true of me right now. There's so much going on.
It's summer, Life is rough.
You know, I think.
I think if I'm really being honest with myself right now, I'd say that's more of a. Of a weekly thing. Something I would really like to get back to. I think my baseline is daily, but I don't think that's what's happening in my house right now.
[00:15:19] Speaker B: Right. And there's a lot of outside factors that are impacting that. Yes.
Sometimes as a parent, we have those other things happening and that can take.
[00:15:31] Speaker A: Yeah. That takes us off course.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:15:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's why I like the language here. This is not judgment.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Right. This is just self check.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: Huh. What is going on in my own home right now?
[00:15:45] Speaker B: Am I praising more than correcting my child? I praise more than I correct. I do them about the same. I correct more than I praise.
[00:15:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: Well, that. That probably said that.
[00:16:03] Speaker A: That probably said that answer.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: We don't really need to go any further there.
[00:16:08] Speaker A: We're real human people.
Yeah.
[00:16:12] Speaker B: Am I showing my child how to be flexible by being flexible myself? I'm flexible every chance I get. I'm trying to be more flexible or I really need to work on this.
Honestly, I say this a lot to my kids.
Oh. Today I'm not being very flexible. I really don't want to do X, Y and Z. And I know that I should.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I think with this one, with all of the things going on in our kind of outer circle family right now, my kids have had lots of opportunities to see me be flexible. My husband be flexible, my. Their grandmother, my mother be very flexible.
So this one, I would say we are rolling with things. And I think all of the adults in their life do model that.
Okay. That did not work the way we thought it was going to. So we're gonna have to pivot and do something else.
[00:17:26] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: So I actually feel like most circumstances, I think they are really seeing us be flexible and say it out loud.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: Correct. Yeah, I agree with you. And I. I think we're very intentional in our house about that just because we know with the dynamic with the kids yes. And like our oldest diagnoses.
[00:17:52] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: We just kind of. They have really have to learn that because depending on what's going on with her, our day is completely changed in one minute.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: Yeah. It kind of is.
[00:18:06] Speaker A: It comes with the territory. It is.
[00:18:11] Speaker B: How often do I use flexibility, vocabulary, like the flip flop, flexible, frigid, and stuck. And apparently I can't even say them. So daily, weekly, or never.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think even, you know, I'm gonna give my. Myself a daily there.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
I mean, I think we do too, in our house, just because, like I said, we have a lot of examples that come up throughout the day. That makes it kind of up the front fort. Oh, my God.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: The forefront. Right.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: There we go. The forefront.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: That's what we are talking about. It's okay.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Of our day. So we need to talk about it all that.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That. I like that little quick assessment.
It gives me a understanding of where maybe I need to do some work, but also where.
Okay. Some of these things.
We're actually doing pretty well in our house.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: Yes, definitely.
So being flexible gives you power, right?
[00:19:26] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: Because it gives you more choices in your day and your life.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
Um, you know, some other ways to talk to kids about that idea of being flexible gives you power. I might even say privileges.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:46] Speaker A: Or independence.
You could kind of talk to your kids about, like a video game. Right. Or even a board game with some kind of quest.
Right. So like your Marios, your Zelda's. I'm not a really big video game person, but you get the idea. Right, Right. You get the idea here that some kind of game where there is a goal and then there's kind of levels.
Right. You have to kind of pass certain things to get special privileges within a game.
You know, usually those players, the way they gain their powers is by completing different challenges and then those special abilities, you know, they need them to kind of pass the next task.
And I think that's a really good analogy for kind of how kids are given privileges in that. In the home.
Right. They have to kind of demonstrate competency with certain things, like being flexible in order to be given the next rung of the ladder on that independence. Like, you have now gained the privilege to go to the park on your own.
You know, you've gained the privilege to ride your bike around the block because you have shown me that you can make good decisions and stay flexible in the context of my home when you are in front of me, you know, so now you get to kind of unlock that next level.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: A good visual for a younger kid is kind of the idea of, like, a marble jar.
And we do really, actually have this system in my home where we do marble jar.
And kids earn marbles when they demonstrate flexibility.
So I will actually call them out in a good way. Right.
I saw you be flexible back there.
I mean, literally. True story. Last week, we were getting in the car to go to summer school, and both of the children. They are five and seven. As reminders to all of our listeners, both of the children wanted the seat that, like, would be directly behind me in the car.
And this was a major problem.
Major problem.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know why car seats are such a problem.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Major problem. Major issue.
You know, both of my kids are in booster seats, but they are, like, the same one. You know, It's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. But finally Millie said, you know what? I'm just going on the other side. And I was like, thank you for being flexible and you earn a marble.
And I. Especially when they're younger, I like that idea of they actually physically get to see how their marbles go up, you know, and they can earn those. They can earn privileges based on how many marbles they have in their jar.
Doesn't have to be marbles, you guys. It can be something else.
I have marbles.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: You have marbles. We had, you know those fake coins that go in the coin chests?
[00:23:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: We had. We got a whole thing of those. And they would put them in their little buckets.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: So that's another idea. Or I mean, it could be anything that shows that it just gets.
[00:23:38] Speaker A: It gets bigger. Bigger. Right.
You know, it's just. It's one way to make something that's a little bit more abstract.
Concrete.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:50] Speaker A: For kids. And anything, anytime we can do that.
Really helps solidify that concept in their brains.
So, you know, we can kind of practice with scenarios. The other.
The other resource that I really like for this is the kind of choose your own adventure books.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: Oh, those are fun.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: Yeah, those are great. And a lot of times. Right. The premise of those is if you make this choice, you have to flip to page. Whatever. Whatever. Right.
And I love those stories for teaching this concept because it really shows how decision making can lead to certain outcomes.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: There's a specific series of books that my kids own that I think are great. They're called what it's called the power to choose. And there are a few different.
Few different ones.
There's one where the main character's name is Danny, and it's what should Danny do?
And I would say pretty age appropriate for anywhere from, like, 4 to 8. It's a good age group for those books.
But Danny has the power to choose his day. And so something happens to Danny, like the first book, his brother has the Alphabet or. No, the brother has the ninja plate, and he wants the ninja plate. Right. So what should he do? Should he throw a fit and refuse to eat his pancakes on an Alphabet plate? Or should he just, you know, suck it up and eat it kind of thing?
[00:25:41] Speaker B: That sounds like an awesome series.
[00:25:42] Speaker A: They are a great series. Yeah. So there's Dani in one. So there's a few books about Dani. And then there's also a few books about Darla. So there's kind of also like a male and a female character.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: Which I like, too. A lot of. A lot of kids.
I mean, there's been a lot of studies about that. Right. That kids really do identify with kind of a main character who they connect with.
So I like that. The premise really is basically the same, but there is, like, a male character and a female character, and you can kind of follow them throughout their day.
And they all have, like, eight or nine different endings of their day, depending on, you know, what. You pick what you pick. And my kids love them.
And they're. They're good. They are genuinely good stories and books. So. So just wanted to throw it and.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: Then get your 20 minutes of reading in every day.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: Sure. It does.
It sure does.
It's pretty great.
You know, some other ways to kind of model. This is just some other scenarios.
So in one scenario, right. We can picture. We can make up characters, too. Kids kind of like that.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: True.
[00:26:55] Speaker A: So, you know, Jimmy, he. He loves pizza. He would like to eat pizza every night. His parents decided that the family would have pizza night every Friday.
And then another tradition in Jimmy's family is that whoever has a birthday gets to pick his or her favorite meal to have for dinner this Friday. Jimmy's sister has a birthday.
So Jimmy is.
Has a choice to make here.
Right. Because his sister gets to choose dinner, and his sister did not choose pizza.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: So how's Jimmy gonna handle this? Right?
So either Jimmy can recognize that his sister gets her special day.
Right. Or Jimmy could get stuck and have a fit. What do we think is gonna happen?
Depending on the age of the kid, too?
Sometimes I'll have my kids draw pictures of what could happen if Jimmy throws a fit.
This can be really silly. And I mean, my son specifically, whenever we read those, like, Danny books or The Darlo ones. He will kind of like to choose the stuck choice on purpose. And, boy, he thinks that's.
[00:28:15] Speaker B: He thinks it's funny, doesn't he?
[00:28:16] Speaker A: Really, really, really funny.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: That's Jack's voice.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: Right? You just kind of, you know. But it's a really good way to have the conversation.
So there's a lot of ways to tackle this.
[00:28:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
So whatever way you choose is great because you're still gonna model, explain it, you know, practice it. Just like everything else that we do, which is what our kids need to see.
[00:28:48] Speaker A: Absolutely right. And, you know, I do like, too, that we're not saying that every time you're flexible, the world is going to be like, great job, you are flexible. All good things are happening to you.
That's not what we're saying. But what we are saying is if we're flexible, we have more choices, and generally we have more opportunities to get our needs and our wants filled. And that's the message we want our kids getting. Because that's true.
[00:29:25] Speaker B: Exactly.
So, Maggie, what's happening outside of dyslexia?
[00:29:30] Speaker A: Yes, like I think I say every single week, all of the things I are happening outside of dyslexia.
We are. This summer has just been a big transition time in my family and kind of my extended family.
So we are dealing with moving. We are not moving. Not my. Not my family. We are not moving.
But my grandmother is moving, which is a really big kind of family shaking event.
And so we are really.
We're dealing with some really tough feelings.
The kids are having some tough feelings about it.
I'm having tough feelings about it.
It's been a lot. It's been a lot. What is happening with you, Nicole?
[00:30:30] Speaker B: Well, this summer has been extremely busy at the center, I'm going to say. We've had a community health intern and an occupational therapy fieldwork student, which has been amazing experience.
They have been helping with our groups every week, which has been really fun to see, because not only are we seeing our students grow in the groups, we're seeing our intern and our OT student also grow. And they bring so much to our centers. Great ideas, new activities, and it's been really a great time.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: It really, really has.
Those two people, specifically, they've really.
Both really taught me a lot, too.
I really love what we do because I feel like we get such an opportunity. Like, yes, you know, Nicole and I, as leaders of the company, are training and, you know, training both teachers and other people as well as students.
But one of the reasons I love that so much is I feel like I constantly get to learn and really stay up on what's happening in some related fields.
[00:31:48] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, we will, we will be sad to see them go, but boy, they really brought a lot to us.
[00:31:57] Speaker B: They have. Yes.
[00:32:01] Speaker A: So if you do like our show, please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or would like us to discuss a topic.
Please be sure to follow us and read rate us on your favorite podcast player. That's truly how we reach more listeners and we get to help more families. Thank you, everybody.
[00:32:22] Speaker B: Thank you.
