Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hello. I'm Nicole.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: And I'm Maggie.
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee podcast. We're so happy that you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children, what dyslexia is, how it affects our kids. Strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will also be covered in the podcast.
Parents are not alone, and we want to give you a voice to the concerns and the struggles that we are all having. This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. So grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Hello, everybody. Welcome to episode three of DAC, dyslexia and Coffee. We like to start our episodes with the concept of the week. So, the concept of the week is our opportunity as practitioners to kind of pull back the curtain a little bit and talk about what are some of the things we're teaching in intervention with our students. So, the concept of the week last week was decoding, and the concept of the week this week is encoding.
Encoding is the process of taking the sounds we hear in a word and mapping it to the letters needed to spell the word correctly. So, basically, spelling.
So when you think decoding, think reading. When you think encoding, think spelling.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: Right.
So our last episode, we talked about how and why to talk about dyslexia with our students. And today we want to talk about why and how to talk about dyslexia with the school staff.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Deep breath, everybody.
This is gonna be a doozy.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: So, believe it or not, we get a lot of questions from our parents on whether they should share their child's diagnosis at school. Yes, it's a big question, and we get it asked all the time.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And our answer is, yes, we do need to share our dyslexia diagnosis with school staff.
Why? Why do we need to?
So that the schools can support the students through academic programming. So the schools have that common language again, like we talked about last week, four interventions, four accommodations, four modifications, and any kind of assistive technology that that student may need.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: And using the actual word dyslexia is really important. So that, like we said last week, we're using the same language, and everybody's on the same area of knowledge so that everybody can talk about it the same way.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Also, schools need to support the students emotional needs.
They need to know that the student is not lazy or not stupid, and they need to be able to support them in all areas of academics as throughout the whole day and not just through the reading and writing.
[00:03:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. You know, if a student is not feeling well emotionally, they're not, they're not learning largely. I think another point to add here is that using the word dyslexia also provides that opportunity for the teachers and school staff to use the word dyslexia. Sometimes they're kind of afraid to go first or to use that word first. And if you're the one who's going first and using that word sometimes. The things that came up for me as a teacher were high schoolers. That's my background, you know, ugh, I'm so stupid.
I must be lazy because this person told me I was lazy. And in second grade they didn't give me this, you know, that kind of long track record thing.
And it provided me the opportunity to say, you are not stupid and you are not lazy. That's not what's happening here.
So it allows that avenue in for school staff, too.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: The other reason why the school should know is they can start the evaluation process for a 504 or an IEP. We will definitely be talking more in depth about five hundred four s and ieps in later episodes. But right now you should understand the difference. So basically, an IEP is you get the interventions and a 504 plan is more modifications and accommodations.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, typically. Right. That IEP, that's an individualized plan.
And a 504 is still individualized, but it really is more of a what are they going to do to the environment to help this kid? So definitely some important legal distinctions between those two. And we're going to unpack that later. Not today.
Too much for today.
[00:05:30] Speaker A: And really the biggest thing to understand is that an outside diagnosis does not automatically qualify a student for either of those plans. So your student could have dyslexia and never get an accommodation and never get an intervention.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: That's correct.
Unfortunately.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: Unfortunately, that is correct. Our students are highly intelligent and they have lots of compensation techniques and sometimes that gives them good grades. And unfortunately, grades are one of the ways that you would qualify for interventions. And sometimes our students don't have those grades that are needed or they can make it enough that the school, there's benchmarks and the school, they don't hit the benchmark enough.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Yeah, it's hard.
Schools, unfortunately, are not set up in a way that it's a prevention model where, I mean, that is more of what we do here when a student has a diagnosis or doesn't have a diagnosis. Right. We put those interventions in place we're doing those instructional things ahead of time versus school. The way it is currently set up can only intervene when there's an academic problem.
And schools also cannot.
Not, cannot. Schools do not diagnose dyslexia.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: So typically, if a student qualifies for an individualized education plan for dyslexia, it's generalized in the category of a specific learning disability in reading or written expression. So they don't typically use the dyslexia diagnosis.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: Correct. So that is, I think, probably burning question number one. Right. One of the very common questions I get asked is, what is the difference between a learning disability and dyslexia? And quite frankly, the answer is pretty simple. Dyslexia is, in fact, a learning disability. So they are the same thing. It is a learning disability in reading, and actually it's a disability that we know a lot about. There's a big body of research. We want to know more, of course, but we know a lot about it. We know about what is going on in the brain, what are those barriers, and how can we intervene.
One of the issues, too, we run with parents.
Another thing we get asked a lot.
Point of confusion. Some school professionals believe that they are not allowed to use the word dyslexia, which is incorrect. There is really negative history of school professionals being afraid to use the word dyslexia for fear of their job. It was definitely discouraged at certain points, even though there has never been a law on the books banning teachers or school staff from saying the word dyslexia.
Simply not true. Never has been.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: And I guess we probably should talk about dyslexia is actually a diagnosis from. It's called the DSM five, which is the mental health psychology book of lists.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. I mean, it's literally that. It's a big book. It's the diagnostics and statistical manual, and it is in the fifth version. So DSM five.
[00:09:32] Speaker A: And that's where dyslexia is defined and where it becomes. It can become a medical diagnosis.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: And then it. Until recently, the association of School Psychologists did actively discourage school professionals from using the word dyslexia.
Do you know a little bit more about that? Because that's something.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: I mean, all the way up until 2015, there is a pretty well known document among school professionals. It was basically the dear colleagues letter in 2015.
And that is when feel free to do a lot of googling if you feel like going down a rabbit hole.
It's a pretty dense document. It is written by school psyche, but it is. It's talking about that issue. It's talking about using diagnostic terms and how we really should be using those diagnostic terms because they're specific. It actually addresses what is the concern. And now what do we do.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: To get an IEP or a 504 plan? The order of operations of how that happens depends on the school district. It varies depending on the relationship with the school, how their policies are written, and kind of how it's all laid out in that district.
[00:11:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Each district is going to have a slightly different process. So we're going to talk today pretty generally.
As always, I'm going to say upfront that the advice we give you today, your mileage, may vary.
We also. Right. We work individually with parents.
If you are a person who is getting services here from the dyslexia Achievement center, you know, feel free to reach out to your practitioner with some specific questions, or Nicole and I directly, we're happy to help. That's one of the reasons we're doing this podcast, is to connect with parents.
Kind of get in there with you. That's getting our elbows dirty today.
Typically, though. So if we're really talking very broadly, in most school districts, if you are looking for an IEP or a 504 plan, that conversation is often going to start with the school psychologist and with the classroom teacher. So you're usually, those are your two go to people.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And if you're looking for support in the classroom only, talking with the classroom teacher is a great place to start because you're part of their team, right. You're part of the school team. As a parenthood, you are at the table and you should be involved in those discussions.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: Before we begin any conversation with the school, as a parent, it's a really good time to check in with yourself emotionally, especially if there's a history of distress or bad feelings between you and the school, even if it really has nothing to do with your kids school. All of us at some point, right. We have certain feelings about our own school experiences, and it can be hard not to project those to our kids.
Pat, calling the pedal black here. Right. I mean, me too. Look in the mirror.
So before you're ready to have a conversation with the school, get in touch with your own emotions and start to investigate where those coming from. It will really help you be a strong advocate for your child, and I really kind of can't stress that importance enough, actually.
I also want you to know this is a slow process.
You will have to manage your expectations.
It is likely that you will not get all or any of the services you feel like your child needs through the school.
This is because their criteria is very different.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah. So some things to think about is what you would like to see happen and write these things down. I always took pens and papers to all of our meetings.
I had questions beforehand written down, what supports do you want to see put in place?
Think about the question, if my child has a successful school year, they will be able to do. What would they be able to do?
And you might want to practice this conversation with a friend or a partner. I always went with a meeting to a meeting with somebody else because it's always good to have that second pair of ears, to be able to take notes, to be able to remind you if you forget to ask a question.
So having somebody there, and as the parent, you can invite whoever you want to come in and sit with you during those meetings. So the other thing I would like to say, too, is put everything in writing the first time you want to have a meeting, even if you call them. I would follow up with an email saying, remember, we talked on the phone on this day, and we decided we were going to meet on this day, just confirming our date and time and when we're going to meet and where we're going to meet.
And even if you have a longer conversation summarizing that conversation in an email to them back and keep those documents.
I have documents from when my daughter, who is 13, was in three k, and they are very helpful for finding the history of what was asked, what was given, what wasn't given. And so you can find out all those information and have that at your fingertips.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
It also puts out the message that you're here to advocate for your kid. And I'm not gonna just forget that this conversation occurred.
[00:16:36] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: It's good to have that reminder. I mean, that is something I did as a teacher a lot, too. You know, on the other. On the other side of things, that is something I often did when I had a conversation with a parent. I would write an email that said, you know, thank you very much for this phone call today we talked about XYZ. We decided that the next conversation is going to be x time, or we decided that I will communicate with you two times a week, or, you know, whatever it was. It's document, document, document.
You know, in that same vein, ask for meetings to be recorded, if possible.
You again, you can ask. They don't have to allow that, but you can definitely ask the question.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: And if you don't understand something, please ask, because sometimes you just need it explained a different way, and then it would make a lot more sense, and then the miscommunication doesn't happen.
So that's an important thing, too, is make sure that if you don't understand something, the other thing, too, is it's okay if you don't want to sign right away.
[00:17:58] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: They're going to pressure you two because they need to dot their t's and dot their. I mean, dot their I's and cross their t's.
And so they want all that paperwork signed and processed. But if you need time to absorb what was said, things that you want to add, really review it, you can have that time.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
And don't be afraid to ask people to repeat themselves.
I was asked that quite a lot.
You know, most school professionals. Right. They got into these jobs because they want to do those jobs. It has been my lived experience that very few school professionals go into these jobs thinking, what can I do to make it so hard for kids and so hard for parents? That's just. Yeah, every professional profession has some bad apples. So, sure, fine.
But often that is not what they're there for. So being able to kind of separate, these are the individuals, and we're on the same team. We're all trying to kind of fight the system, so to speak.
Right.
I was asked to repeat myself a whole lot. I was asked by parents, could you please write that down? Could you send that to me in an email? Could you send me a text with that information?
Don't hesitate to ask those professionals to do those things. And most individual professionals are going to be very willing to do those things. And if they're nothing, that's a good red flag as a parent. Right. That's a good indication that. Hmm. This may have to get escalated up. Up the flagpole.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: Right?
[00:20:09] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, if you are having a problem with an individual staff member, it is well within your right as a parent to take it up, take it up the flag pole.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: There are also advocates in this area that can help with the process in the state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin Facets is a great resource for families.
It's wisconsinfacets.org. and they have information about ieps, 504 plans, going to meetings. They have people that you can call and ask questions to who know the law and can help kind of guide you if you need that extra support.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
You know, again, mileage may vary on all of this. I know Nicole's had lots of experience.
So from your own lived experience. Right. What are some of those strategies that you felt actually did help when you were having conversations with school staff.
[00:21:21] Speaker A: Definitely the email follow up with the communication summarizing the meetings.
That way everybody was on the same page and everybody had it written in front of them.
Also having somebody else there to help ask the questions and take notes because you're more emotional because it's your child. And sometimes you need to remember that just because it's your child, you still need to step back and have somebody else there to kind of keep you emotionally.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Someone in that kind of neutral seat.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: Correct, neutral.
And also, I think just being open to the discussions and the different points of views because I'm the parent and I'm not the special ed teacher, so I'm not an expert on that.
And so just knowing, sometimes I don't know what, I don't know. It's good to know, to listen to other people.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, something I used to really strive for as a special education teacher who was generally the one running IEP meetings or evaluation meetings.
I generally tried to start with welcoming each member of the team and whatever the name kid was. Right. So like Johnny. Okay, we are team Johnny today. And I would try to start the meeting with, thank you for showing up for Johnny today. This is what we're doing. This is the goal of the meeting. And I feel that a special education teacher should start a meeting that way. Not everybody does. And I also think it is okay for a parent to start a meeting like that. I used to have some parents that would bring, most of the time, because I taught high school, the student was present in an IEP meeting, which we will talk about. My thoughts on that. I have strong ones, but most of the time the students were present at the IEP meetings. And sometimes there were situations where a student was not present for extenuating circumstance.
And I had parents bring a photo of their kid and put it on the table and say, this is who we're talking about today.
And it was a good reminder. It really was.
It took the meeting to a different place, I think, because, yeah, I think these school professionals do care and they want what's best for students and they're also fighting the system in a different way.
Which leads me to my next point.
Insert soapbox here. But at a certain point, your child needs to be included in school meetings.
I personally advocate for children as young as third grade to be involved in these meetings in some way, shape or form. I am not saying they have to attend the whole meeting. I don't feel like an entire IEP meeting. Is generally appropriate for a third grader to sit through.
However, some idea of, wow, there is going to be a meeting today, and these staff members and my parents are going to come to this meeting and they're going to talk about me and what I need.
I think it's important, really, as, as young as those third graders to get involved in some meeting. Your kid doesn't have to attend the whole thing, but he should be asked what they feel is working and not working for them.
I really kind of find that students who attend their meetings from an early age, they're more likely to ask for what they need. I think it's kind of normalized for them in a big way that, oh, yeah, this is.
These accommodations are baked in for me, and lots of people work really hard to give me a. A good school experience. I think that is pretty critical.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: And then on the other note, if you have a child, don't have your child attend a meeting, if you feel like there might be some tension between you and the school or staff member, because this can really affect your child's emotions, and they might feel like they need to choose between you and the school or you and their teacher, which puts them in a very bad spot.
And if you know that there's going to be things discussed that might emotionally affect your student, maybe that part of the meeting is not where they should be, because you know your child the best and you know if they can handle being involved.
Even if they don't attend the meetings, you can still talk about what they're thinking and feeling beforehand. They can help you write something down for the meeting, and it just gives them a way to express how they feel their school is going.
But sometimes the meetings, most meetings are very pleasant and go really well, but.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: There are talking about, like, the scary side today.
[00:27:31] Speaker A: But, I mean, you also want to know that, you know, yours, your child doesn't have to be with all that adult tension when they're not an adult.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think, you know, we've talked about before on here how, yeah, our, our kids emotions are nothing. Our emotions. And they experience the world differently than we do.
News flash. That's crazy.
But, you know, sometimes we are carrying a lot of tension coming into these meetings and our kids are not.
But if they're sitting in a room absorbing that tension, all of a sudden now we've got those secondary issues that can come up with not only a dyslexia diagnosis, lots of other diagnoses, which we'll talk a lot more about that in future episodes. But, yeah, we just want to make sure that we're involving our kids from a young age in whatever capacity they can be correct.
[00:28:50] Speaker A: And you know your child the best. So if they have high anxiety or if they have other emotional distraught issues, they might need not to sit through a whole thing and talk about knowing people are talking about them. Just that knowing can cause that anxiety to go up. So that's another piece, too, to think about for sure.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Some things that I've really seen be very successful. Is parents at home making a PowerPoint presentation with their kid. Not necessarily that the kid is going to sit and present the whole thing. Some do. And when that magic happens, I've been a part of meetings like that that are truly student led ieps, which that can be a whole episode.
I'm pro. Just to let everybody know, I am pro students leading their ieps to the best of their ability.
But I have seen art. I have seen kids bring in drawing of what they're feeling. I have seen kids record themselves talking. If they don't feel comfortable talking in a room. I've seen students record themselves.
I think there's so many ways, and I think it's yet another opportunity to reach out to our kids and go, wow, you have such strong strengths in some of these areas.
That is showing them how we bridge that gap. That's showing them. If this is a way for you to be involved, bring it in. And it also, those are the moments that I'm getting kind of teary thinking back to a couple of IEP meetings I've been a part of where a kid has really taken the lead in a big way and shared something that has nothing to do with school.
And I've been like, wow, that's amazing.
It's helpful, I think, on the school side of things, right. Mostly the school professional side of things, I think is tremendously helpful.
So feel free.
[00:31:22] Speaker A: So at the end of the episodes, we'd like to talk about something outside dyslexia this time. Mine's a little related. So I have a 13 year old and an eight year old who both have ieps. They have them for different reasons.
They also started very different.
So I've been able to see the process from different lenses, which has been a very eye opening experience in helping our students that come to the center and the parents navigate. That has. Has been something that is very dear to me, because knowing what I know, it can be a stressful time.
[00:32:12] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. Right now for me. And a little related as well.
Right now for me, it is a little chicken coming home to roost, I think.
You know, my son, my oldest, we are starting to explore a diagnosis for him.
We've definitely seen it coming for a long time, but we're really kind of prepared. He is now in first grade, and we're now prepared to begin this process at the school level. For me, I've been having a lot of. I'm on step one where you have to check in with yourself emotionally.
You know, given my special education background, boy, I had a lot of books to read and a lot of book knowledge to have on the subject, and it feels a little different on this side of the table, that's for sure, which I think makes me a better professional. So that is what we're doing.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: Well, thank you for sharing that. I know it's hard for parents to bring that up.
I've had a little bit more practice.
[00:33:41] Speaker B: This is why I really work for Nicole.
[00:33:47] Speaker A: But we will definitely talk more about that in future episodes. But thank you so much for joining us today. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or any topics you want to discuss. And please like our show and make sure to follow and rate our show on your podcast player. This makes us reach more listeners and gets the word out there to families. So thank you.
[00:34:11] Speaker B: Thank you.
