Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children.
What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will all be covered in this podcast. Parents are not alone and we want to give voice to the concerns we are all having.
This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Hi, everybody.
Welcome to the Dyslexia and Coffee podcast.
It is episode 68, which, wow, that seems like an awfully big number.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: We're gonna start today's episode the same way we do every week with the concept of the week. So the concept of the week is our opportunity as practitioners to kind of peel back that curtain a little bit and let everyone into an intervention session. So we like to teach about things that either we would teach directly to a student or something that we would be discussing with a parent. Something really directed directly related to what we do here.
Today's concept of the week is genetic research.
Genetic research works to ensure individuals.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: It is a unit of study that is about how DNA and genes affect.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: Disabilities and it also informs the.
[00:01:41] Speaker A: Prevention and treatment of different diseases.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: So today, Insider Baseball. My episode outline really got wonky.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: And I did not know where that all came from.
[00:02:05] Speaker A: Well, there it is.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: It's later than we normally record too, so we're a little loopy. That is why.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: So our episode this week is really interesting to me and mainly because I like research and I'm sorry, but there was.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: Some an article that came out in August of 2025, so very recently where they did a genome wide association analysis of dyslexia reading skills.
So they looked at different genes.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: That impact reading. And so in the previous kind of research they had like about 120 genes that impacted reading and dyslexia. And now they're up, they found that we now have actually more and it's up to 136 genes that can impact reading skill and dyslexia. So that is why everybody, dyslexia doesn't look like anything between.
When you see one person with dyslexia, it is not the same as somebody else because think about how many genes that is. That's a lot of genes to be impacting reading.
[00:03:27] Speaker A: Yeah. And just so interesting.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: One.
[00:03:33] Speaker A: The wide scope of this particular study, you know, and not. Not surprising to me at all as a practitioner that, oh, actually, what we found was this is even more widely impacted across different spaces of our genome than we originally thought. Right.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: I mean, it really makes a lot of sense to me that there's so many.
Just because.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: None of our students look alike. I mean, even with the same areas impacted in the brain.
[00:04:20] Speaker B: They don't look alike. So this makes a lot of sense to me.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: Yeah, it really does.
It is really interesting, too. I mean, the study particularly that we're talking about, when you dive in and you kind of try to read these studies, this one's very technical. It's very technical.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: The genome studies and the kind of the genetic profile studies are always really fascinating because they look at so many factors, including.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: You know, it's. It's genetics and it's also environmental. So it's broken down by not only, like, ethnic groups that can be tracked across their DNA, but also within certain regions, what is occurring as well, which I find pretty fascinating. It's almost like that, what they say, epigenetics. Right. Where, like.
[00:05:22] Speaker A: It'S not only the DNA, but also what influences those changes at the same time.
Right.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, it's just a very interesting.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Study that I think backs up some of the things.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: That we kind of know but is not.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: Talked about all the time. Right?
[00:05:52] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: So they did find, too, in the study that there was a correlation with dyslexia and adhd.
Guess what?
[00:06:11] Speaker A: So surprising.
So surprising.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: Yes. And we're like, oh, well, we could have said that anyways.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: So. But yeah, I thought that was really interesting that that was one of the other diagnoses that they looked at.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: And remember, both of these diagnoses impacted second functioning. So thinking about that and now knowing that they share Genesis.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Makes a lot of sense. Right?
[00:06:45] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, and again.
Right. The idea.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: Which did exist at one point. Right. Understanding how many genes are involved, we are not talking about one single gene. That is kind of our cause.
[00:07:05] Speaker A: What I think was interesting about this particular study is they found actually a little less overlap between the dyslexia and ADHD that other studies have found. Which is interesting, Right? It is interesting to me.
[00:07:25] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: Also not really surprising to me that they found that dyslexia was strongly genetically correlated with academic achievement and education levels. Level, like getting your GED or going to college.
Which makes a lot of sense.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: I mean, it makes a lot of sense, Right? It makes a lot of sense that.
I mean, of course it would especially. This is a very large study.
I'm not finding the actual.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: Population number here, but this is a very large study. It is. And multi age. This was not a study of only children, which a lot of the research that is published and that we read regarding dyslexia and ADHD seems to really focus on just the children.
And this was a more broad age category study too, which perhaps may explain the slightly less correlated with adhd because they were relying on self reporting there when they were doing their comparison. So they were kind of relying on that self reporting of other.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: Conditions that also are multi genes involved. So they aren't something that they can just screen for. Right. With one gene.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: It was also interesting to me in this one. I guess it makes a lot of sense too. You know, we always talk on the show about how high anxiety seems in our students and the diagnosis of anxiety, but actually major depressive disorder was shown as a positive correlation with dyslexia also, which is an interesting.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Overlap to me.
[00:09:28] Speaker A: It is, it's interesting. And definitely.
[00:09:32] Speaker A: What we know.
[00:09:35] Speaker A: From other kinds of studies that.
[00:09:42] Speaker A: Our population with dyslexia are at high risk for not only anxiety disorders but also major depressive disorders because of the way those two disorders interact with each other.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: So I think what is really fascinating to me is anytime I think we try to kind of piece apart or like pull, pull at the string and try to separate these conditions out, the more we find that we actually really can't do that. Right.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:10:17] Speaker A: We can't. We really can't do that when we're talking about anxiety and depression. When we're talking about anxiety and ADHD and dyslexia, the more we pull at one string, the more we find they're actually all woven together in kind of in not a way we can piece them apart.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: Correct.
Yeah. And it's, it's just a very interesting.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: The body and the mind are very interesting. Right?
[00:10:49] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:10:50] Speaker B: I mean, they're so complex, I don't think we'll ever know everything that we could ever learn about them.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: So it is very interesting to me though that this study was able to like combine some of these things. Right.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I find.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: Not that I am a genetic expert by any means.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: This is one of the hardest articles I've probably read in a long time.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: Yeah. I think what for my not geneticist perspective, which any geneticists out there or people who are in the research field, Please.
We'd love, love, love, love to hear from you.
But what I found interesting from breaking Down. Some of the specific genes that are involved is kind of what they do.
Like.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: There are a few genes involved that of course all have specific names that mean not much to me as a non geneticist.
But one of the genes involved, it's called the DCDC2 gene, it's involved in the neural, like the neurons and the formation of the length of the cilia or like the little hair cells.
Another one plays a role in the nerve cells and how the individual nerve cells in the brain connect.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: You know, and.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: In hormones. One of the genes involved, Dyx1c1.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: Its pet name.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: Is involved in estrogen signaling, so also affects. Right.
Hormones, which if we're talking about things like anxiety, depressive disorders, makes sense that there will be hormonal involvement, you know. And then another one kind of highlighted.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Is.
[00:13:12] Speaker A: Robo1.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: Which is involved in the axon guidance pathways. So it helps guide the nerve cell connections, like at the axon level in the individual neurons.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: Which makes sense. Right. Because we're trying to build neurons with our intervention. So that's why we do that.
[00:13:37] Speaker A: I think it is, it's fascinating because.
[00:13:41] Speaker A: It, it backs up a lot of things we already do and.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: Kind of provides some perspective.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: Oh, interesting. How many things come together to create an individual's brain.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: Fascinating. Just fascinating.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: And I'm missing the area where I.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: Saw it earlier, so I don't know the exact gene, but there are quite a few genes that overlap with motor control in dyslexia, which really makes sense to me as an ot. Right. Because we see so many issues with handwriting and bilateral integration, putting things together, fine motor skills, strength, all those things in our students with dyslexia.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that is, it's pretty fascinating.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: It is.
[00:14:46] Speaker B: It also did not show a correlation with autism, which I thought was interesting.
[00:14:51] Speaker A: That is fascinating because that is an area that flies in the face a little bit of what other research studies have found.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: So that'll be an interesting one to keep track of. To keep track of continues.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: Or if, you know, this is all just one, you know.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. I mean, we're kind of piecing apart one particular study, which actually I think maybe makes for an interesting episode to listeners because this is really truly a little bit us processing this study in, in real time and thinking about how does this relate to things we already know, what parts of this were surprising or unfamiliar to us, which is the way we coach our students to read. Right. That's what we're trying to get them to do when we're working through comprehension Tasks with them is how does this relate to something I already know and what is new or different information here?
[00:16:01] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: And just knowing that, you know, they still are looking. Right.
So they're still researching this.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: So it's just a very interesting thing to just keep.
[00:16:16] Speaker B: Aware of, I guess.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: I think it's also interesting and it goes maybe back to that the hormone genes too, that there was a strong correlation between dyslexia and chronic pain.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: Interesting.
Yeah. And I. Yeah, I agree. I'm wondering if that has something to do with hormones and even like a major, major depressive disorder.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: True.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: Right. Knowing.
Knowing those two things are quite interrelated.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: And also the motor component too. I mean, if you're weaker. Yep.
Obviously it's not gonna feel as good if you're motor. You're doing a motor activity. Right.
[00:17:04] Speaker A: You know, I think on a high level too, having these kinds of studies and continuing to try to kind of push our own selves to read these kinds of studies, it helps reinforce that idea of like dyslexia is neurobiological in nature. These are things that they have actually found by processing our genomes.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: I think this kind of research being done is so critically important for.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: Advocacy, even though they may not seem that related to each other.
But the more we have these very real and detailed genetic studies and these genetic profiles, the more, the better our advocacy work can become because we have the real hardcore evidence for this.
[00:18:05] Speaker B: And then it also just confirms our language. Right. That it's a language thing because it said that it's highly dependent on brain circuits that involve the spoke, the support, spoken language. So.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: We know that that is, it's a language based.
[00:18:28] Speaker B: Diagnosis and we know that. And now obviously the same parts of the brain that does language.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: Obviously are impacted by dyslexia too. So it's a very interesting study, I think.
[00:18:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, I mean, just really, really fascinating.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: I am interested to know more about what they're finding.
Those developmental links.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: It also kind of opens up another.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: Arm kind of in. In intervention. Right. If we know more about the way the neurons are affected.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: You know, I think then we can know.
We in theory.
Another area of research can be, are there things to repair those pathways?
Exactly.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: Who knows? That's what's, that's what's what a time to be alive and be able to really dive into some of this stuff.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: And just so everybody knows, they haven't even identified all the genes in our body yet. Not even close.
[00:19:49] Speaker A: Not even close.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: These are just genes that they have identified in our bodies and what they affect.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: We have so many more genes in our body that they have no idea what they do.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: So it's just a very interesting.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: You know, just time. Because.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: They'Re learning something new every day. And then somebody has to write these really amazing articles and then you have to interpret them.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: And we get to interpret them and process through this stuff.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: I think it's fun to process this in real time. It's fun to.
Yes. Listeners. This is how Nicole and I have fun.
[00:20:41] Speaker A: I tend to read these studies from the lens of I wonder how this really impacts the students I work with. I wonder how this impacts their families.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Well, and they did find a significantly significant statistical.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Hereditary.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: In the chromatin signatures.
So.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: Which also.
[00:21:13] Speaker A: Backs up existing research on that matter.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: Dyslexia. We.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: Kind of on a.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: Over.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: Not from this specific study, but just from things general studies that we already kind of know.
You know, being like 60 to 70%.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: Family tie.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: You know, if a parent has dyslexia, their child is at like 50% risk of having dyslexia.
This study seems to back that up. Yeah.
[00:21:56] Speaker B: With how they were talking about it. And yeah, it's just very interesting because.
[00:22:04] Speaker B: Obviously the study was a lot about genes, but there was some pieces where they actually looked at the brain too. And that was what they were comparing. And that piece was the brain looked.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: And they did separate out environment. Not only like geographical regions.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: They did.
[00:22:20] Speaker A: But also environmental risks, things like early education, socioeconomic status.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: And access to.
[00:22:35] Speaker A: Access to higher ed. So they also did piece those things out, which isn't always done as explicitly in some of these studies.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: You know, there is definitely environmental factors at play.
It does seem on its face that the environmental role is about like 30% versus like 50 to 60 on that genetic.
[00:23:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:09] Speaker A: You know, so it is. It is both. I'm kind of thinking back to as we process the new international dyslexia definition, the fact that it discusses that neurobiological but also environmental in nature. So it is acknowledging.
[00:23:30] Speaker A: Two things are true, that both are influenced here.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: So we just kind of showed you a little bit about what we do in our free time.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: We talk about research.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: We sure do. We sure we absolutely do.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: And I love it. I mean, every day, truly, I am thankful for the work we do. I mean, not only do I get to be hands on with students all day, I really get to kind of have my hands in.
[00:24:14] Speaker A: A lot of places, including processing complex research in.
[00:24:21] Speaker A: Real time. It gets me kind of re excited to Work with kids and kind of see how this stuff happens in real time.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: And we're always learning something new.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:35] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:24:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Even when it's hard.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: Even when it's hard.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: Because we can do hard things.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: We can do hard things. Yes. But we say to our students every single day.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: Every single day.
You know, and it's practicing what you preach, because.
[00:24:48] Speaker A: Reading these studies is not easy. I would not say it's like pleasure reading, even though I get a lot of enjoyment out of it.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:24:58] Speaker A: But I wouldn't say this is like, ooh, this is by beach read. I'm posting up by the pool and reading some research, even though I probably would.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Not. Everything that brings us joy is necessarily pleasurable.
Right. Like, it was. It's difficult, but the difficult things are important to do.
So thanks for processing this very nerdy research.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: And we will continue to do things like this.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Yes.
So, Maggie, what's happening beyond dyslexia?
[00:25:39] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness.
You know, as we record this in real time, it is.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: Early to mid December. I almost said October. That's how much stuff is going on, you guys. That is how much stuff is going on.
[00:25:56] Speaker B: We're way past October.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Way past October.
We are in the absolute throes of all the holiday things.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Our magical entity, who is the scout for Mr. Claus, has arrived in our house.
[00:26:17] Speaker B: Yes. Tonight.
[00:26:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yes. Saint Nicholas as well. I was trying to be dodgy and talk about our elf on the shelf.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: Oh, we don't do that.
[00:26:29] Speaker A: So I didn't follow that. So wish we did not do that.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: I did not follow that at all.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: So wish we did not do that. You guys.
[00:26:40] Speaker A: I am usually very good at the. No. Like, we're not doing this in our house, but we were gifted ours.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: And it was, like, too late. It was out. Out of the literal box.
And now here we are, and I hate it. I'm so grinchy. It is so much work every day. And let me tell you, folks, I am not a.
Our elf does not do pranks. Our elf does not do crazy things. All he does is hide, and that's it. And we only have one. Even though we have two kids. He does not have a pet. He does not. Oh, this is a whole thing they have. Yeah. Nicole's looking at me like I'm crazy, But anybody that's up and down the halls of Target knows, yes. The elves have clothes. The elves have pets.
[00:27:37] Speaker B: The elves.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: Elves. Oh, yeah.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: Houses. Now, I think what, guys?
[00:27:41] Speaker A: It's insane. And no, thank you. And I hate it all. And I want him to go away.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: And thanks for letting me say that.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: I am so glad that our family did St. Nick. And that's all we do until the big guy comes.
[00:27:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Because, oh, we do also do Saint Nick.
He brings us the makings for our gingerbread houses. We make.
[00:28:03] Speaker B: Oh, that's nice.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: We make the graham cracker gingerbread houses, and that's what sticks.
So that's a decide once and be done that I can get behind, but this.
[00:28:15] Speaker A: Shelf business can go.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: I'm glad I had. I was just kind of clueless when we first had gathered, so it was kind of. It's.
[00:28:25] Speaker A: Oh, my God.
Lucky, lucky, lucky.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: I'm glad everybody was like, keep that going. Yep. Just keep that going.
Yes.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: That felt good to get off my chest.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: Nicole.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: I'm not gonna lie to you.
[00:28:40] Speaker A: Well, listeners, please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or would like us to discuss a topic. If you like our show, be sure to follow us and give us a rating on your favorite podcast players. This is how we reach more listeners and we get to help our families. Thank you, everybody.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: Thank you.
