Episode 14-How to spot junk science.

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie. [00:00:01] Speaker B: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We are so happy that you could join us. We are both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children. What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will be covered in this podcast. Parents are not alone, and we want to give a voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having. This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation. [00:00:36] Speaker A: Hi, everybody. We like to start our episode with the concept of the week. So the concept of the week is our opportunity to pull back the curtain and let you experience some of the things that we would be talking about in an intervention session. So today is the last syllable type. The last couple weeks we've been learning about syllables and all the different syllable types. So just as a review, a syllable is a word or a part of a word with one vowel sound. And there are six different kinds of syllables in the English language. So the very last one is called the consonant L E syllable. Sometimes this is called sticky L. This is when we have a consonant plus an l and then an E. This is referred to as a final stable syllable as it actually doesn't have a true vowel sound. The combination of the consonant and the L is making a pseudovowel sound. Words like stable or bubble use this syllable type. We can only use it at the end of a word like bubble or stable. We can't begin a word with that kind of syllable. We can, however, add suffix to those verbs. So this one's tricky. [00:02:11] Speaker B: We'll talk about suffixes later. That's another whole topic. [00:02:15] Speaker A: I get too excited. How about this exciting topic, Nicole? [00:02:21] Speaker B: Oh, boy, oh boy. This was a hard one for us to write, wasn't it? [00:02:25] Speaker A: Yes, it was. This one gets me a little emotional. [00:02:29] Speaker B: Yes, yes. Not only that is it's a little bit more technical. [00:02:34] Speaker A: It's tricky. [00:02:34] Speaker B: It's tricky. Yes. So our episode today is how to spot junk science. Unfortunately, in our field, we see a lot of companies and programs that try to prey on parents emotions. They make flashy claims or promise a cure when really all they want is parents money. [00:02:58] Speaker A: There are many different ways though, those savvy parents can spot junk science. There are very technical ways. Right. And just really some of this stuff don't get me going. It just shouldn't happen. [00:03:24] Speaker B: So developmental development in the field of medicine and education are frequency frequently goodness falsified or misrepresented. This means that you will need an extra level of scrutiny to separate fact from fiction. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Yeah, this, I find this is like an incredibly unfair part about parenting. [00:03:50] Speaker B: I agree. Because you're very emotional about your kids, right? [00:03:54] Speaker A: Absolutely. So even highly educated, highly attuned parents can fall for this stuff left and right. Me too. Raising my hand here. Right. I too have been like, oh, this sounds so great. And then. [00:04:16] Speaker B: No, no, it's not. [00:04:18] Speaker A: No, it's not. No, it's not. [00:04:23] Speaker B: So things like a miracle cure are a government conspiracy or they don't want. [00:04:30] Speaker A: You to know this, but yes or. [00:04:33] Speaker B: Shocking revelation are all the hallmarks of not good science news. [00:04:43] Speaker A: Yeah. The sources using those tactics are often trying to sell you something, whether it be a supplement or a medical treatment, consultations, or sometimes just the content itself. I have fallen into that trap many times where I'm like, oh, read the free article, but you gotta click over here and then you gotta, all of a sudden you're like subscribed to 40 newsletters. [00:05:14] Speaker B: Right. And. Or if they need your email for some reason before they can tell you anything. [00:05:19] Speaker A: Oh my gosh. [00:05:19] Speaker B: That happens to me sometimes. [00:05:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Why did I do that? I didn't want to do that. [00:05:24] Speaker A: And they're tricky about it. It's not, it's not the old school in your face ones. Right. Like I'm thinking of like old credit card scams. Like we're not talking about like the Nigerian prince here. Like, we're talking about this Seems legit. [00:05:43] Speaker B: Right? [00:05:43] Speaker A: But it's not. [00:05:46] Speaker B: So what are some examples? [00:05:48] Speaker A: So some examples of headlines. I did some Google research, my favorite kind of research. I did some Google research for this episode. Some things that came up out of a very, very basic Google search were things like can cure dyslexia in six months, guaranteed results in seven weeks. All experts agree. And shocking new study reveals. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Boy, that's quite the topics there. So something that we should just say out loud. Dyslexia is lifelong diagnosis and it cannot be cured. There is intervention available that can give some great outcomes, but it will always be there. And just to point out, adhd, autism, dysgraphia, dyscalculia and language diagnoses are also long term diagnoses. [00:06:52] Speaker A: That's right. Where if you see the word cure associated with any of those things, guys, it's snake oil. That's not real. No, it's not real. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean the research, the real research shows that there is differences in the brain and you can't cure differences in the brain. [00:07:17] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. Any kind of like, oh, like, oh, we're gonna remap this part. Like no, no, no. [00:07:30] Speaker B: Other things to look for. Capitalizations and all the words, exclamation points, especially multiple. Yeah, why would you need multiple. Yeah. Or strong opinions or emotions in the headlines. Right. Like the, those are the first signs that there might be something misleading because they're drawing you in with some strong opinion or emotion. That's not a great title to want to read that article. [00:08:01] Speaker A: No. [00:08:03] Speaker B: And really just read the details of the article, not just the headline. Because what is the whole article about? Does it even come up with any reputable information? [00:08:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And even if they. I mean, I think a really tricky, nasty trick that I've seen a lot lately is using a well known researcher's name. [00:08:28] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:08:29] Speaker A: Maybe in like the beginning of the article and then just never actually pointing to the actual body of research that that researcher did. Did. [00:08:39] Speaker B: Or having a famous person on it. [00:08:41] Speaker A: Yes, I've seen that, I mean quite a lot lately. And I have to admit in some publications that I actually do find reputable, I've been seeing some of this and it's. It's not great. Another thing to really look out for is oversimplification. Dyslexia is a complex topic and every person with dyslexia is different. So the science behind how we learn to read and spell, that is complex and it requires discernment. So when people try to over generalize and oversimplify, they're not following the science. If they say things like all dyslexic learners need this type of phonics, they are lying. That's. That is not. That's too simple. [00:09:46] Speaker B: Exactly. Right. Because we all know all of our brains are different, even neurotypical. [00:09:53] Speaker A: That's right. [00:09:53] Speaker B: Have different brains and learn different ways. So not everybody can be an auditory learner or a visual learner or. [00:10:03] Speaker A: That's right. [00:10:03] Speaker B: So I mean, it doesn't make sense. [00:10:05] Speaker A: One simple trick like ew. [00:10:10] Speaker B: Another thing to look for is conflict of interest. If the person is writing the article will benefit in some way from that article or for the information inside the article, they could be misrepresenting the outcomes or results. [00:10:23] Speaker A: That's right. Where I see this a lot is like a publisher. [00:10:30] Speaker B: Correct. [00:10:31] Speaker A: Stating a certain program has the best outcomes and then they really. And, and I mean reputable ones too. I mean I've seen this really programs that I own Being sold to people that maybe shouldn't even be owning these kind of curriculums. And I mean I've been seeing well known programs that are really meant for trained teachers being sold to, not novice people in a way that it's like. Wait a, wait a minute though. That program is great, but if you don't know how to use it right, it's actually going to be extremely overwhelming and really unfair to everybody. [00:11:19] Speaker B: Agreed. [00:11:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:22] Speaker B: And we need to be aware of our own biases, right. Because do we want that information to be true? Probably. [00:11:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Absolutely. One simple trick to cure it. Cool. [00:11:33] Speaker B: Nice. [00:11:33] Speaker A: Sign me up. My job just got so much easier. [00:11:36] Speaker B: One supplement to lose weight. Awesome. [00:11:40] Speaker A: That's all. [00:11:40] Speaker B: I got it. [00:11:41] Speaker A: Improve your focus just four sessions. Right? [00:11:44] Speaker B: Right, Exactly. [00:11:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:48] Speaker B: Also popular doesn't equal true. [00:11:51] Speaker A: That's right. [00:11:52] Speaker B: Like often we consider common sense is not just actually scientific. [00:11:59] Speaker A: Right. [00:12:00] Speaker B: So like give us an example of that one. [00:12:02] Speaker A: I mean I really think that this led to a lot of the rise in whole language kind of instruction. Right. We were really sold a bill of goods and it was extremely popular. Readers and Writers Workshop and Lucy Culkins and company made ridiculous amounts of money because we all thought, wow, look, if we just expose them to lots and lots of books, they will read so much faster and better and they will all love it. I mean that's essentially the story we were sold. Right. A lot of that did seem kind of common sense to some people, right? [00:12:45] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:12:46] Speaker A: If we're just exposing them a lot and if we're just making them practice lots and lots and lots and lots, then they're going to get better. That seemed common sense to some people and it was extremely popular. And at the end of the day it was based on zero credible research. [00:13:13] Speaker B: Also some other things to look for in studies that may be true or at least for now. You know, science actually changes. And so whenever they make a new discovery, you kind of have to pay attention to that because five years ago I'm going to have Maggie explain this because this is more her area. Phonics in the Dark was a main go to for for teachers and reading intervention. And now we know that we have to pair your phonics with graphemes, phonemes, syllables and a whole bunch of other stuff and morphemes. [00:13:49] Speaker A: Right. I mean even a few years ago, truly the invoke practice, which in part was based on science was this idea that like phonics, so the sound system, right. If you close your eyes, things like say cat, but now say cat, but don't you know, say cat, but instead of say N. Right. And doing a lot of that in isolation without really also showing those graphemes or having the kids do something with more meaning or syllable division. Or syllable division, those kinds of things. That was what was recommended. [00:14:41] Speaker B: And now, five years later, they're now recommending adding all those other pieces. That's right. For students to learn to read. [00:14:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:51] Speaker B: So that's right. That's why you have to keep on top of things. For an example, for anyone my age, poor Pluto is now not a full planet, which I'm not really okay with. [00:15:05] Speaker A: Not okay with that. [00:15:06] Speaker B: Poor Pluto. Poor Pluto. [00:15:08] Speaker A: So sad for Pluto. But yeah, that's exactly right. Scientists have updated their research. [00:15:16] Speaker B: I know wrongfully. Poor Pluto. [00:15:20] Speaker A: Poor Pluto. [00:15:21] Speaker B: Pluto needs to join back as a plan. [00:15:23] Speaker A: I'm sorry, but my very excellent mother just served me nine pizzas. How are kids supposed to remember the planets anymore if there's no pizzas? Very frustrating for me. [00:15:38] Speaker B: So that's just a really good example of how things can change. And it's not. It's just that they didn't know when we were kids that that wasn't a planet because they had. [00:15:50] Speaker A: They didn't have the instrumentation. [00:15:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:52] Speaker A: That's right. [00:15:53] Speaker B: And then they got it and they found out more about Pluto, and now it's not a full planet anymore. [00:16:00] Speaker A: We don't have to like it. What is popular is not always what is true. It's unpopular with Nicole and I. [00:16:11] Speaker B: So when you're looking at articles, there are some things that you can look for that can help you decide if it is research that you should follow. Follow and read. And maybe. [00:16:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, some of those things. Right. Those articles that are written in, like, let's say, a parent magazine, or maybe we come across them on social media. I mean, automatically, my gut is telling me, be wary. If I have come across it on social media, I. My gut is telling me, be wary. That doesn't mean throw it away. That means be wary. Any of those articles that are talking about researchers say, okay, what researchers? [00:17:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:06] Speaker A: Where do they practice? And how many students are we talking about here? Any article that references a research article should link to that research article. [00:17:21] Speaker B: Correct. And that way you can actually look at the research article and see, did they have a large sample size, or is it one or two students? Because one or two students is not enough. [00:17:33] Speaker A: No. And I will say that a lot of education research is case studies. [00:17:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:40] Speaker A: Especially in the special ed world. It's a lot of case studies, which I'm not Saying a case study is bad. I read lots of case studies. I do case studies. But to say that, that can generalize. That's where we're getting into that faulty science part. [00:17:59] Speaker B: Right. You have to look for a presence of control groups. So a control group is maybe peers that do not have dyslexia. Right. So if the sample size has students that have dyslexia and not dyslexia, that's. [00:18:15] Speaker A: More, that's going to be more robust research. [00:18:18] Speaker B: Correct. And look for peer reviewed research. You know, what are. Did another expert in the field review the information and have agreed that it looks true or promising? Because that's a big Right. [00:18:40] Speaker A: That ability to replicate the research. Has someone attempted that? [00:18:48] Speaker B: Right. And you know, all these items should be also included in the paper's abstract, which is that little paragraph at the beginning of a study that kind of tells you about the study and it's at the beginning and it talks about the methods and findings of the study. [00:19:11] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. Any reliable scientific study, they're going to be forthcoming about its own limitations, the scope of its results, the need for further investigation. A scientific study in this field worth any salt at all is going to say, this is what we think happened. It is not going to make some sweeping concrete. This is, this is it. Forever and ever. Amen. We completely conclude and will never, ever move off of that. Any research words worth itself, at least in this field is not going to do that. You know, I think why this really gets me emotional is that many parents are not steeped in the research. Many parents are not individuals who went to school for exactly this. Right. We're just parents doing the best we can. [00:20:26] Speaker B: Correct. Or even like to read any of these things. Right? Yeah. It's easier to read something on social media for five minutes than it is to read a research article, because there's a lot of data in those research articles. It's dense, it's dense. There's a lot of big words. Then sometimes you have to look up to see what in the world did that still even mean? [00:20:51] Speaker A: I mean, who has the time? The time. And I think when we add on top of it, many, many of our students we see here. Right. Dyslexia runs in families. And so many of our students, if we are seeing a dyslexic child, very good chances we are also seeing dyslexic parents. It's. We're really setting them up for or very unfair set of circumstances. And I really dislike the phrase do your own research. I think it's thrown at parents. Like you have to pay attention to every single thing that comes across and if it's not on your ticker all the time, then you're somehow a bad parent. And I think that's really wrong and rotten and it upsets me because it's used to take parents hard earned dollars, guys. It's not easy to make a living. So I think again, yeah. I think that's why this one really gets me emotional. [00:22:02] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:22:03] Speaker A: It's. It's upsetting and it, I mean, and it really is kind of everywhere. Some things I think to keep in mind. [00:22:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:22:19] Speaker A: You know? Yes. If social media is really the only place you are getting your information, maybe that might be something to take a look at. [00:22:32] Speaker B: There are certain things in there, like professional social media pages, but if you don't belong to them and you usually have to have credentials to belong to them. [00:22:45] Speaker A: That's right. [00:22:45] Speaker B: It's hard to get into them otherwise. So that kind of limits who can be in those groups. [00:22:53] Speaker A: Yep. [00:22:55] Speaker B: But yeah, there's a lot of things that, you know, you really have to look for. And it's not just related to dyslexia. Right. It's. Oh yeah, try this new behavioral technique. [00:23:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:11] Speaker B: Where's the research behind that? [00:23:13] Speaker A: Right. And not for nothing, I think it is okay to buy a product that might not be totally scientific. Right. If you're really kind of aware that, you know what. [00:23:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:31] Speaker A: I mean, I think a really good example. I mean, food dice. Can we just talk about food dice? Okay. There is some research to suggest that some food dyes are very harmful for some portion of the population. And then there are a lot of other studies that say we just really haven't found an actual real link. And I think it's okay for a parent to decide. I mean, for me and my house, we try to avoid them. That's for me and my house. For me and my house, we do a couple of supplements that again, there's not slam dunk research on. [00:24:09] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:10] Speaker A: But I am okay using my dollars for the. Maybe this could show some improvement. So I guess I'm not saying that if it's not completely researched and we don't have every single study to back us up, that it's not worth it at all. I think it's. What are some things to be wary about or aware of? [00:24:38] Speaker B: Right. Being the proactive consumer really? Because I mean, yeah, there's definitely some things you're like, hmm, there's some research on this. There's not a lot of research on this. Maybe I'll go with the one that has a little bit more research versus the last research, just because obviously there's more people that have been shown to like it or do it or whatever the case may be. So, I mean, there's definitely that concept of, you know, if you're aware, that's great. And that's just what we want to say is there are so many things out there, especially with social media and how electronic the world has become, that I think. [00:25:32] Speaker A: Yeah, again, I mean, I think, like, a lot of things in parenting, it is a. That's a really hard job and the expectations have increased. [00:25:46] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:25:47] Speaker A: We are expected to wear a researcher hat and wear a mothering hat and wear a school professional hat. And I mean, all of the expectations on us as parents. And I may be so bold, mothers, you know, it. It's like, oh, cool. That's another thing. But I don't know, I guess where Nicole and I are coming from is that we don't want to see, especially the group of parents that we work with fall into these traps and people with disabilities are preyed upon, frankly. And when it's our kids and we're like, oh, my gosh, okay, if it could help, then fine. You know, we have seen an increase of the word cure and dyslexia. It's one of the reasons we wanted to do this episode is, whoa, I'm seeing this. Guaranteed results in seven sessions or seven weeks. Full disclosure. Here at our center, we do not say anything like that. What we do is steeped in research, and we believe in what we do, but our individuals deserve individual instruction. And there is no guarantee in a set amount of time that X kid will achieve Y results. That is unscrupulous, and I do not appreciate it. [00:27:26] Speaker B: And there's other things that might be going on with a student, and you don't know that right away. Right. Sometimes you don't know that there's something else going on until you're deep in it with some student in the crick, in the scope and sequence. And then all of a sudden you're like. And they find out that there's something else going on. And that impacts learning, too. [00:27:49] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and it also is a lot of. I mean, something to look out for. Right. They require you to pay for 10 sessions upfront. [00:28:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:01] Speaker A: And then they'll let you know if we're making progress according to our measure. Right. I mean, they set the measurement and then they say whether or not your kid is making progress. [00:28:10] Speaker B: Well, yeah. [00:28:12] Speaker A: Okay. That's you can make. You can manipulate the data any way you want. So if you are a company that's saying, hey, in seven weeks, well, yeah, it's gonna look like that on paper, whether or not that's true. And I think it's very unfair to expect a parent to really even know that. Like, that's. It's not cool, man. And I don't like it. [00:28:39] Speaker B: So what's going on in your house these days? [00:28:42] Speaker A: Okay, Life outside dyslexia. I need to take a minute. I got emotional. [00:28:49] Speaker B: Wow. [00:28:50] Speaker A: It's November. And I cannot believe that is November. This fall has been a big time of change in my house. I have two kids in school. We've had IEPs, we've had diagnoses, we've had lots of stuff, lots of stuff going on in the. In the Gunther clan. And it's not gonna stop because guess what? It's November. So the next month is December. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:29:26] Speaker A: Oh, not ready. [00:29:28] Speaker B: Oh, me neither. [00:29:29] Speaker A: Zero. Buying. I've done zero. [00:29:34] Speaker B: And as we get ready for Thanksgiving, we do love it in our house. But it does change our schedule quite a bit. And that really throws our kids off with their sleeping, eating, and their moods. Especially our oldest, who's 13 going on 14. Those. Those teenagers. Yeah. That's all I can say. [00:30:01] Speaker A: Just a collective. Well, thank you all for sticking with us and listening to this episode. We really do hope it was helpful. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or would like us to discuss a topic. If you like our show, be sure to follow us and rate our show. Give us a review if you feel so called and your podcast player. That's how we reach for our listeners and help our families. So thanks for listening. [00:30:33] Speaker B: Thank you.