Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Hi, I'm Maggie.
[00:00:06] Speaker A: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We are so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children.
What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will also be covered in this podcast. Parents are not alone, and we want to give voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having.
This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Hi, everybody. We're going to start our episodes, as we always do, with the concept of the week. So concept of the week is something we would either be teaching to our our students or is something that we think is really important for parents to know.
So today's concept of the week is a specific language impairment.
This is also known as a developmental language disorder.
It is a communication disorder where children have significant delays and difficulties with language development that, that are not caused by other conditions. So we're not talking about hearing loss or intellectual disability or some other kind of neurological damage.
Children with this specific language impairment, they struggle to either understand language, so their receptive difficulties, or they struggle to use language to express themselves.
These kids often have otherwise normal nonverbal intelligence. They can excel in other language or, I'm sorry, other areas.
So this would be. So a specific language impairment would be something either in addition to or as background knowledge as it relates to dyslexia.
Dyslexia is a language based disorder, but it is not the only one.
And there's been a lot of research into the oral language development in kids lately. And as it relates to reading.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: And obviously oral language also affects vocabulary, grammar and sentence structure, and this can affect communication that persists into adulthood.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Yes.
So today's topic is oral language development.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Yay.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: So we're going to talk about it today.
Yeah. Today we're talking about oral language development.
That is the ability to use spoken words to communicate ideas, needs, and feelings.
For children with dyslexia, adhd, autism, or other learning differences, oral language can be both a strength and a challenge.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: So strong oral language skills are a foundation for reading, writing, and building relationships.
So let's dive into why oral language matters, what gets in the way, and most importantly, what we can do to grow oral language skills.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah, this is, like I said, a huge topic in research right now.
It's been overlooked For a really long time.
Many kids come to our center for a dyslexia diagnosis.
And what we find is there is also can be an underlying oral language deficit.
What we know is if there is an underlying oral language deficit, there will be difficulties with reading and writing.
We really cannot untangle the two, because oral language is the actual foundation for written language.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: So before a child can read or write, they need to understand spoken words, sentence structure, and how conversations flow between people.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: Yeah. So if you really think about it. Right. If. If reading is like building a house, oral language is that concrete foundation.
Without it, those walls do not stand steady.
You cannot skip this step.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: Right.
And for neurodiverse children, oral language can look different.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: You know, like a child with dyslexia may have great ideas but struggle to find the right words.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: Yeah. How many kids do we know like this?
[00:05:28] Speaker A: A lot.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: A lot.
Or they can kind of pull up a word that is close but isn't the right word.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: That's a huge thing that a lot of our students experience.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: And then more on the receptive side. Like a child with ADHD might talk mile a minute, but miss the thread of a conversation. Right. Because they're not processing what they're hearing and receiving from somebody else.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And they're going so fast. And they care about what they're talking about.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: They really do.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: Like what they really, really do. But they're not catching, you know, even those non verbal cues.
[00:06:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: That. That can be a huge source of struggle. Which nonverbal cueing is part of this oral language that we're talking about.
So not just spoken language, but everything that comes along with it.
[00:06:22] Speaker A: Correct.
A child on the autism spectrum may have a large vocabulary, but then find that back and forth dialogue very tricky.
[00:06:34] Speaker B: Yes.
They may struggle in situations where, like, they're not really that interested in what you have to say. They care a lot about what they have to say.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: And all those kind of social dynamics.
Again, part of this oral language bucket.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:06:53] Speaker B: They could really tie in here.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: Exactly.
And understanding these differences helps us meet the kids where they need to be instead of where they think they should be.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Right.
Yeah. There's a lot of shoulds in this world. There it is.
Yeah. That could be kind of hard to detect with.
We can kind of think of them as. All right, there are some signposts. Right. Like a reframe for should is.
There are some side posts along the way.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: Right.
By kindergarten, ideally, we do want our kids knowing all of the letters of the Alphabet. We do want Them knowing most sound letter correspondences, that's a good signpost. It would be something we would label a should.
But if this kid is not there, it just tells us they need help.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: Correct.
So what makes oral language tough for some kids?
[00:07:58] Speaker B: So many things. One of the things can be processing speed.
So it may take longer for them to understand and then respond.
These are the kids that a teacher might call on them. They might know the answer.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: But they need wait time.
These are also the kids that you can be having a conversation, and all of a sudden you have moved on, the conversation has moved on, and then it looks like they're just blurting out an answer.
So we might have already been talking about favorite movies, and now the conversation has moved on and we're not talking about movies anymore. But the kid is like, I love the Minecraft movie. It's my favorite. And it seems like it has nothing to do with the current thread.
[00:08:54] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: But actually their brain was just processing for that long.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Another area is word retrieval. Like, they know the word, but they can't pull it out in the moment.
And we see that a lot with our students with dyslexia.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. That's one of kind of the hallmarks of that, like classic dyslexia brain, is that being able to kind of pull it out when you need it is problematic.
Kids who struggle with attention.
Right. So conversations move fast.
It's really easy to lose track.
And they don't always have that social awareness to know how to bring the conversation back or kind of even admit, hey, I don't actually know what we're talking about right now.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: Exactly.
Social cues. Some children struggle with turn taking or reading body language.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Like if somebody's getting annoyed or they're rolling their eyes, they don't understand that that's.
Maybe somebody's getting bored with the topic or they need to move on.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: Yes. I mean, or even just the tone of things.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Right. Like that they don't always have that ability to read somebody's tone.
And it can be. It can be really hard.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: It can be.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Let's be honest. Today's world doesn't really help with that. Right. There's short text messages. There's less face to face talk.
Lots of screen time can shrink. Opportunities to practice conversations.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: Absolutely.
You know, even things that they're watching, like YouTube videos, I mean, they're short. They do not have a beginning, middle, or end.
There's often not even appropriate dialogue happening.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Like, the exposure to strong models is less correct. Yeah.
[00:11:00] Speaker A: So what are some strategies for home.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: So good news here is oral language can be nurtured every day.
So one strategy. I use this a lot when my kids were little and I find that when my kids are transitioning to different stages, I kind of pull this tool back out.
You know, you can narrate your world, right? You can talk through what you're doing. Right. I'm chopping these carrots for dinner when they were little. I might also like go into a description of an item. Right? Oh, they're orange, they're crunchy.
It really builds that vocabulary in a natural way. It helps with a lot of other things too.
Kind of being able to talk about what you're doing when you're doing it helps a child's brain build their own routine.
[00:11:55] Speaker A: Great.
Another option is to ask open ended questions instead. Did you have a good day? Try what was the funniest thing that happened today?
Right. Because the first question would be a yes. No. The second one will invite like that longer response and maybe get you into a back and forth conversation.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. This could be harder with some kids.
[00:12:21] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:12:22] Speaker B: My son is the like, how do I answer this? The shortest, most succinct way possible so that mom can't ask me any more questions.
He does not like talking about his day or sharing any details with me. And he gets so frustrated because he almost knows what I'm doing. He's too wise to my tricks.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: Oh, gotcha.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: So he'll try to like turn an open ended question into a yes, no question.
[00:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah. I have the other problem. I have one that says I don't know.
Like, what do you mean you don't know? You were there the whole day. Like something. Tell me something, what did you have for lunch? I don't know.
Okay.
[00:13:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: Like every answer is I don't know.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it can be.
It can be hard.
And it's.
It is one of those pick your battle things.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: I find it okay. My kid can answer one thing that's good, but it is something to try and work on.
You know? Another thing too is kind of modeling. Right. So try not to just jump in with a correction every time your kid misspeaks.
Right. If your child said, right him go to the park, you can reply, oh yeah, he went to the park.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: The park.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: So you're modeling for them what a correct grammatical structure would be.
You're reinforcing it without shutting them down.
If you're working with a speech pathologist. If this is something your kid is consistently doing and we're past kinder, first grade.
This is very developmentally normal all the way, really, until the end of Kinder.
If you're having concerns with that kind of grammatical structuring later in their oral language, speech pathologists can really help guide. Okay, which patterns are we going to now gently correct.
But it's kind of a matter of not jumping on every little thing with your kid because they'll just shut down.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Exactly.
Another option is storytelling. Games like, take turns adding sentences to a made up story.
It incurs creativity, sequencing, and listening skills.
[00:14:52] Speaker B: Yeah, this is a great activity.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: We love doing this.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: We love doing this. We do this in the car a lot. My kids will just do this on their own a lot.
And I do this a lot in clinic.
Writing sentences.
We build a story in a written context and, you know, the next sentence has to kind of relate to what's going on.
So this is. This is a great one.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: And other students may need visuals, so like pictures, props, or gestures to help them connect the words with meaning. You know, those visual learners, those pictures are really, really important.
[00:15:37] Speaker B: Mm.
You know, practicing those conversational skills. Right. So role playing, greeting, ordering at a restaurant, asking for help.
These are real life tools, and they'll use those every day.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: I have to do this with mine on the phone whenever we call somebody together because, you know, saying hi or bye or, you know, they're just doing something in front of them and expect them to be able to see through the phone what they're doing.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:16:08] Speaker A: Which is really not helpful for the other person on the other line who doesn't. Especially if you're not on like a FaceTime and you're just so.
[00:16:16] Speaker B: Yes, I know my.
So my daughter and then her cousin. So she's got a cousin who's about nine months younger than her and they're really, really close, but they live a couple hours away from us. We tried to do a phone conversation between Millie and her cousin a couple weeks ago, and it was like.
It did not. It did not work. And both of these girls are quite chatty.
But the phone was such a barrier because they wanted to keep being like, show me this, or one of them would just wander off.
Yes.
And it was. I mean, it was really funny. And it was like, okay, this is worth. This is worth continuing to try.
They do need to learn this skill. And it was a funny way to teach it.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: You know, something we do in our house at dinner is kind of.
We do high, low, buffalo in our house. So we do. What was a high in our day? What was a Low in our day.
And what was a buffalo? So what was something that was kind of unexpected or, you know, made you laugh?
And it's a nice way to get them to communicate about their day.
You know, usually Aiden will tell me, like, I had no high, I had no low.
And then he'll make up something for buffalo. Like, clearly something that did not happen. Like, literally, like aliens attack the library.
Okay, okay. All right. At least getting him to engage in it for right now is kind of the goal there.
Or, you know, something like. Tell me three. Right. So tell me three things about your day, and you can kind of put some structure there for them because it's. It's an important skill.
[00:18:11] Speaker A: Exactly. Another way is three things. Like something that they did, something they saw, something they felt.
And this really builds their storytelling skills going forward.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Absolutely.
So building vocabulary and comprehension. Right. So expanding vocabulary is another key part of oral language.
So how do we do that?
Read aloud. Right. The old standby.
Even to older kids.
Heavy. And I would argue especially with older kids, Reading to an older kid is a really good way to work on your relationship.
Hearing rich language, it boosts comprehension, and it gives them words that they may not hear in casual talk.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: Exactly.
Play word games like I Spy 20 Questions. Rhyming games.
These make language playful. And it's not pressured. We always do. In the car.
I spy something with my little eyes, and then they have to guess. And usually it's so out there.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:28] Speaker A: But it still gets them looking around and noticing their environment.
Being able to discuss what's in the environment.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree.
We do I Spy a lot.
You know, 20 questions is also a great one. Oh, yeah, that one, too. That one's great. And, you know, you can even just buy the 20 questions. I mean, it's great.
It's an easy access point.
And it's good. It's really. It's a good way to practice those skills.
You know, connecting new words to what they already know.
So if your child learns the word enormous, you can tie it back, like, oh, yeah, remember that giant pumpkin at the fair? That was enormous. Right. So reinforcing a new vocabulary word and connecting it back to something they already know, that's really big.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: Right. And the more connections they make, the stronger their memory.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
So kind of what to look out for or when to seek extra support.
So sometimes, despite our best efforts, a child still struggles significantly with oral language.
That's when a speech language pathologist can help.
They can assess skills like vocabulary, grammar, and social communication.
They can kind of Create that targeted therapy.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: It's a good time to check your child's IEP or 504 plan, if they have one.
Check whether speech and language support is included or if it should be added as a related service.
So speech language pathologists too, just really do have a wealth of knowledge.
I think that it's a discipline that's often misunderstood by people who don't really know what a speech language pathologist does.
Sometimes they think of speech and language as.
Oh, articulation.
Yes. And it is really so much more than just articulation. It is everything we've talked about today.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Would fall under the purview of a speech language pathologist.
[00:21:57] Speaker A: Correct.
They make social stories, they help, you know, description, social communication, all those things that we talked about today.
And they do it in such a way that most of the time your child has no idea that they're actually working.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: Yes.
Yeah.
Most kids love going to speech.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: They really do.
[00:22:23] Speaker B: They really do. They really do.
So some key takeaways from today.
Oral language is the foundation for literacy and for relationships.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: Correct.
And neurodiverse kids have very unique strengths and challenges in this area.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
Simple daily strategies. Right. Like narrating, open ended questions, storytelling games, they can make a huge difference.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: Reading aloud and connecting new words to experiences builds vocabulary.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And when needed, speech language pathologists can provide valuable support.
So they're great people to know and kind of understand them as a resource.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: And I guess another thing about speech language pathologists, you know, there are different things that they can work on in a school versus an outpatient. Just kind of like other disciplines.
You know, in the school it has to be related to academics, but outside it could be related to other things.
So just be aware that there could be something that you're seeing that maybe the school speech therapist doesn't address.
But maybe that's because it's supposed to be done in outpatient or vice versa.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: You know, and either way, that person can usually at least guide you in the right direction or provide some resources or some extra practice.
Much like a school based occupational therapist. Maybe they can't deliver services directly to your kid because your kid's not going to qualify.
However, I have not met one yet that hasn't been willing to share resources, give advice, give some professional guidance.
Just because a practitioner can't work directly with your child doesn't mean that you can't use them as a resource. Correct. It's a good place to start.
[00:24:39] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:24:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: So, Maggie, what's happening outside of dyslexia yeah.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: So I think I've shared before on our podcast that this summer has been a really big change. Some big changes in our family.
My grandmother, who's kind of like the matriarch of our family, had to move to assisted living this summer, and that's been a really hard thing for our family.
And we finally, I think, have her house cleaned out officially.
It has been a several month long process.
Lots of big feels.
It really is like the ending of a really big era in, like, four generations of our family.
So it's been really hard. But I think we are. I think we are finally ready to list that house.
So that is what's happening with us outside of dyslexia right now.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: Yeah. It's big.
That's big.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: Yes.
What's going on with you, Nicole, outside dyslexia? Well, we went to Iowa this morning past weekend to visit our. My husband's parents, and we had a great time just kind of hanging out. But it's really funny because I forget that they're like 20 degrees to 30 degrees warmer than here, and it's just so odd.
And because they didn't have the floods we had earlier this summer.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Their mosquitoes were, like, not there.
[00:26:18] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I don't want to talk about mosquitoes right now.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: I know, right? Because they're everywhere and we can't even leave the house without, like, 20.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: They are so bad. My poor daughter's face is all mosquito bites.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
So we were actually able to go outside. And because also, they live on a farm, we could fly kites. Oh, my gosh. We did that the other night. Yeah. It was really fun.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: So fun.
[00:26:42] Speaker A: Yes. Definitely could find some frustration tolerance to use with our daughter, but other than that, it went really well.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: Yes.
Oh. All of that.
Well, thank you, everybody. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or would like us to discuss a topic. If you do like our show, please follow us and give us a rating on your favorite podcast player. This is how we reach more listeners and we get to help more families. Thank you, everybody.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: Thank you.
