Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We are so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children.
What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will also be covered in this podcast. Parents are not alone and we want to give voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having.
This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: Hi, everybody. We are going to get started with the concept of the week. That is how we like to start all of our episodes here at dac.
The concept of the week is our opportunity as practitioners to kind of pull back the curtain a bit and let you all into an intervention session. So we like to teach about things that we would teach our students about. Today's concept of the week is initiation.
So initiation is getting started on a task quickly and easily.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Nice.
So episode 41 is the beginning of our summer series in executive functioning. So we're going to start off with some foundational knowledge and kind of from there.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Yeah. So for many of our kids, executive functioning skills need to be explicitly taught. These skills extend way beyond the classroom and can be applied and practiced and modeled and taught at home as well as across all environments.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: Right.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: Really?
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Correct.
And let's just define executive functioning. So it refers to a set of cognitive skills that allow people to plan, organize, manage their thoughts and actions.
These skills are crucial for daily tasks like making plans, solving problems, adapting to new situations.
Key aspect of executive functioning is could include working memory, cognitive flexibility and inhibitory control.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: Individuals with dyslexia often experience challenges with executive functioning like working memory, planning and organization.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Correct.
Knowing that we've talked in other episodes about the co diagnosis of dyslexia and adhd.
Adhd. The whole definition impacts executive functioning. So having the combination of both can affect it in multiple different ways.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, and just kids and adults in general, these are skills that we practice and strengthen throughout our lifetime.
And I think it's just really important to talk about them at home and let our kids watch us.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: So I'm pretty excited about this summer series.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: Me too.
Also, what age does it fully mature to have executive functioning skills? Maggie?
[00:03:22] Speaker A: Oh, never really is the answer to that question.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: That's a good question.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: I'm still waiting for mine to fully, fully Kick in.
But some things kind of in general that we might be able to expect starting in early childhood, Right. Between like three and five, children start demonstrating basic self control, some emotional regulation and simple planning skills. So that's about what we can expect in our three to six year olds.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: And then for middle childhood, like maybe around middle school. Ish.
You know, that's in early childhood they start doing more self control, including goal setting, organization, time management. And they begin those critical thinking skills.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
In young adulthood. Right. So kind of in those early 20s, even up through the mid-20s.
Now, the prefrontal cortex, Right. That's that area of the brain that is really responsible for executive functioning. It continues to develop.
It leads to that increased ability to manage long term goals, evaluate risks, regulate behavior across different situations.
It's that idea of like neuroplasticity, which. Let's go ahead and define that. What is neuroplasticity?
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Well, that's when the brain's ability to adapt and create new neural networks through experience.
And it also means like that executive functioning is continue to develop and refine throughout life, even after the mid to.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Late 20s, thank goodness.
[00:05:22] Speaker B: So just because you're in your 20s does not mean you're not still growing.
The brain is still not adapting and every new experience is going to build those neural networks.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
So we do get asked a fair amount. Maybe not in these specific words, but, but like, okay, how do I teach executive functioning at home? Right. We may not get that question in those exact words. Correct. But we get asked, you know, how do I help my kid plan? How do I get my kid to put their things in their backpack by themselves? How do I, you know, clean their room, clean their rooms, not throw a hissy fit on the floor when they can't find what they need?
[00:06:06] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:06:07] Speaker A: You know, all of that is wrapped up in executive functioning.
And the good news is there are some really good concrete steps and we're going to kind of walk you through that.
So executive functioning instruction really needs to start with setting expectations.
[00:06:25] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:06:26] Speaker A: In the classroom, this might look like creating kind of a code of conduct for the class.
You know, it can really be applied at home.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: As well.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: And I think something important too is you start pretty explicitly. You have everything written down. You have it, and then you start taking pieces away so that they can build that neuroplasticity in their brain and continue to work on those skills without having either the visual cue or the auditory cue or whatever cue you're using.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: That's exactly right. Right. The fancy Teaching term for that is called scaffolding. Right. We set it all up for them, and then slowly but surely, we start taking kind of those little pieces down. I think one of the reasons structured literacy instruction works so well is because every single step is very concrete. The student knows exactly what they need to do, and they know what I will be doing. Right. So they know what their instructor will be doing, they know what they will be doing, and it is all pretty routine.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: They know what's expected, and they also know the way the lesson is going to progress every single time.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, and like we said before, all children, especially those who struggle with exposure, executive functioning, they need concrete and explicit expectations. I don't know how many times I have to learn this lesson at home.
I don't. My goodness. The home environment, it just always doesn't lend itself to that. And it can be a source of just such frustration for both parents and children.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: For at home, you can also do a family activity where you do a code of conduct.
This is a simple and great way to get all the family members on the same pages of each other. You don't have to call it a code of conduct, though. You can call it.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: You can just call it. These are family values.
We do have that at home. And it's literally a piece of paper where we wrote down, we respect each other in this home. We use kind words to talk to each other. We apologize.
I mean, those are. It's really as simple as that.
It does not have to be over.
Over thought.
Right.
You know? Yeah. Parents absolutely can be driving this bus. You don't have to have this, like, if your kids really are not ready, if they're too young, or they're just really not far along enough in their executive functioning skills to kind of come up with these ideas of their. On their own. Parents can drive that bus to a certain degree. You know that in our house, it was definitely okay. My husband and I. What do we want this house to feel like?
Okay, how do we bring our kids into that with us and tell them, this is why we're doing this and this is what we expect.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: And I think you guys model that very well in your house.
Where are you guys?
Make sure that you, whenever you do apologize, you do it in front of your children. And they can see.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: Yes, they can see that. And I thank you for saying that because that is a lot of work.
It is a lot of work, and it is a really very conscious choice that we want to make. Sure. Because everybody screws up. Okay. I Absolutely. Yell at my kids. Right. I know it's not great.
I know what to do. I.
And no. But it's making that repair and letting them see that I am a human being, too, and. Yeah. That I still hold these values.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you for saying that, because that is. It's a work. It's a lot of work.
[00:10:25] Speaker B: And I think another thing that us as parents have trouble with, too, is when we're angry or upset or frustrated, we have to talk about that out loud so that the.
Our kids can hear those emotions and be able to recognize, oh, so this behavior goes with this emotion, and that's what they're feeling so that they can start applying it to outside of the home and maybe at school or other areas.
Because, honestly, how else are they going to learn that?
[00:10:54] Speaker A: Well, and. Absolutely. And I think it is pretty difficult. I think most of us who are parents now, that was not a skill that we probably were taught in our homes, in our families of origin. I would not say that was really talked about or even okay to admit, like, I'm angry right now or I'm really sad about something. Right.
I think specifically. Right. Even kind of in the Midwest. Right. It's kind of like, that's not really acceptable.
We need to just kind of be happy all the time and suck it up and smile and, you know, everything's fine. Everything's fine. We're great. Everything's fine. Our family's perfect. We don't fight.
I mean, all those things that, like, that's really not true, because no family is really like that. I mean, it's just not. It's just not the case. And there was this really wrestling of, like, that's how I feel, but I can't say that's how I feel.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: How do I even deal with that?
[00:12:11] Speaker B: Mm.
I agree.
And the goal of your either code of conduct or whatever you want to call it, is to establish those family values, the boundaries and expectations, increase the communication in your house, and ultimately reduce conflict.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
I for sure have a more peaceful home. After we really were like, let's write some of this stuff down.
Yeah, let's write it down. And let's refer back to.
You know, in our house, we have. It's literally just a construction sheet of paper, but it sits in a hallway that we all walk past. We see it.
If we are having kind of a maybe discipline talk with one of our kids, we will actually point it out. We'll say, like, that's kind of the value that. That interrupted and that's why that's not okay. And that's why we're making this repair right now.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: You know, so it's like everybody's on the same page with it.
I will say that, you know, this works across all settings. I mean, even in a workplace. Right. There's an employee handbook. It's specific. You know, this is how you will need to be to work here. And if you violate that, you will be written up and such and such thing will happen to you.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Correct. And it also defines the culture of that workplace, too. Absolutely. What are their values? What are your goals?
Why are you there as a group?
So definitely can see that. But I think we should also talk, too, maybe just a little bit before we go into the next section.
Some kids might not get to this.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: And so you have to help them by using visuals.
Maybe you have to have certain things in your house that will help them be able to express themselves.
And sometimes parents need to be trained on kind of how to get to the main emotion or the main issue that's going on. Because some kids are not going to be able to explain or be able to even experience this in the same way very much.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: Especially if this is kind of a new concept to you.
Think about what. That's what that kid is kind of thinking and feeling and to what degree they even can express it, like Nicole said. Right. So, I mean, sometimes our kids with that really delayed language, either expressive, you know, or receptive, they really have to be walked through.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:15:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And it. It requires a lot of groundwork. There are ways that you can just really kind of incorporate this kind of language into your daily routine.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: And it really does kind of matter. You have to know your kid. And really, I hope nobody envisions some, like, magical conversation with where, like, breaks a rule and I pull them aside and I'm like, hi, sweetie. This is the. This is the step of the family code of conduct that you just violated right now.
Please write me a paragraph on how we're going to. I mean that.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: That's not how that works. That is not how that works.
At least not in my house. I mean, I will say if anybody out there does have a magical wand. Yeah. Let us know, Please let me know. I will.
I'll pay all the money that I don't have.
But it's just really more is about establishing a family culture, that these are the boundaries and these are the things that happen when you. When you cross the line.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Exactly.
So we do have a framework that we sometimes use with our students.
It's called goal. Why plan? Do check.
[00:16:30] Speaker A: Yeah. So this is great for setting any kind of expectation or even talking about, okay, what are we planning on doing? Even over the weekend?
I really like this model.
So the goal part is, what do we want to accomplish?
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: The why is what makes this goal important.
The plan is, what are the steps to accomplish this goal?
[00:17:01] Speaker B: It could be one or it could be a million.
[00:17:03] Speaker A: Yes.
Often it's many more steps than we give these things credit for.
And that's where I think a lot of our kids can get really in the weeds.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: Like, okay. But I don't. I don't even really know what to start. Start. I don't know what are all the things.
And then we do. Right. So you try the plan.
And then the part of this that I like the most is that we check, we stop, and we think. Did I accomplish my goal or do I need a new plan?
[00:17:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's great to start building those problem solving skills with students, with our kids. Because honestly, if you have to think, think, and they have to decide, did we really accomplish what we were setting out to do or didn't we?
[00:17:47] Speaker A: Right.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: And why not?
[00:17:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And to the degree like, okay, does. Does it really matter? Do we have to come up with a new plan, or is what happened gonna be fine enough?
[00:17:58] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:17:58] Speaker A: You know, I mean, just the idea of that flexibility, too, like plan A, plan B. Those kind of things are just so important.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: We have a lot of plans at our house.
[00:18:11] Speaker A: Yeah, we do too.
[00:18:12] Speaker B: You never know what's gonna happen.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: We never know, you know, and this can be just modeled orally, too. Like, that wasn't the plan, but that happened. And we can, you know, evaluate that later.
This can be really, really simple.
An example of this kind of first framework is let's say we have a goal to watch a movie together as a family some point over the weekend.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Right.
Why?
Because we enjoy family time and we like movies.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Makes sense to me.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: Pretty straightforward.
Okay, so what's the plan?
Here's where it's like something fairly simple, like, let's have a movie night. Can get off the rails. Right. We have to find a time that works for everyone. For everyone. Right. If our goal is to do it all together, we have to know who's even gonna be home.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: Then we have to figure out what we want to watch.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: This is where we lose it.
[00:19:17] Speaker A: This is also where we lose it.
Sometimes it's like, okay, sub step parents need to narrow down Three options.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: Yes. Because otherwise we would be there all day long.
[00:19:28] Speaker A: Yes. Too many choices is not good for kids.
And then we're going to figure out what snacks we want because that is essential to movie night. It is non negotiable.
We need to gather the needed items. Right. So for my kids, that's whatever stuffy or blanket or pillow.
Usually when we do movie night, it's like, okay, everybody in their jammies. Everybody's got their special water bottle or cup or whatever they have. Right. Gotta gather all that stuff and then we're gonna watch the movie.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: Then we check how it went. Did we need another plan? Did we finish the movie? When did mom fall asleep in the movie is usually the thing that we talk about.
How far did you get this time, Mom?
Well, you know, I try.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: It's. You know, we try. It's usually my husband that fell asleep during movie night and he snores.
And so it's usually like, dad, we can't hear the movie.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah. I mean, I think what is super great about that model is that it's. It's built in is the idea of flexibility.
We circle back at the end of the process and we see if our plan has worked and if not, what should we do next.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think this model can be used in so many other ways.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: You know, that example was something kind of fun, but something I've been trying to do lately is also talking about like, okay, we need to go to the store.
Maybe it's some certain household items. And I really kind of come to find that my kids don't really know. Like, okay, what do we find at a grocery store? What do we find at Target?
What do we find? I mean, it's kind of amazing. They're like, well, we can just go to.
My kids, just look at a store and they're like, well, we could just go there.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, they don't.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Mine think it all comes from Amazon, by the way.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah. I have been really trying. It is amazing to me, like, all the things that we take out of the equation. Right, right. I mean, because that was a bit shocking to me too. I mean, my kids just expect things to show up.
[00:22:04] Speaker B: Yeah. They're like, just order it. And I'm like, you can't order that. Yeah. If it's an item that you can't order, like, no. You have to know.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: And even with like next day delivery.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: That doesn't.
Yes. Some items, sure. You can get even same day.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: Exactly. But not everything is appropriate for that.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Right. And it's so. I mean, this has been something I've been trying to talk to my kids about is like, these are the things that we need for the house.
And, you know, because they're like, I don't want to go here. Like, well, too bad.
We all live here and we all have a certain degree of responsibility to take care of this home and to do what we need to do.
I've been making them do a couple of chores and it's like this kind of motto. Like, okay, what do you even need? Right? Your goal is to.
I mean, I mean, simple stuff, right? Your goal is to make sure that all of your clothes are actually in the correct drawer.
I don't even care if they're folded. I don't. I really don't.
But you're find them. Yeah. Again, to make sure that. So, like, what do you need? What do you need from me to make that happen? You know, sometimes it's like time or a reminder.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: Because neither one of my kids are gonna be able to remember to do that on their own. They're just. Not yet. I hope so someday.
But they're not gonna remember it on their own. So it's almost like them identifying. Okay, what do I need from a parent to make sure that that does happen.
Right. And sometimes Aiden's why is like, so you don't yell at me.
Fine.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: It goes back to that self advocacy thing too. This is also a good model for that.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: You know, because if they need to ask a parent, hey, I need help because I don't remember what drawer my socks go in, that's starting to build that skill that will transfer eventually to school and work in long term life.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and they. They are both gonna need it, I think.
Aiden for sure.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: More.
[00:24:21] Speaker A: Millie. It's like a different goal. It's like, okay, where and when do we have the conversation about what. What you need?
Because.
Whoa.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: Yeah. She's like Carolyn. Yeah, that's.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that's not the problem for her.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: She's gonna tell you.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: She's gonna tell you exactly how it is and where to go and all the things.
But, you know, we even in our weekly library trip, it's been so nice out lately that we've been. We walk to the library once a week and we talk about beforehand. What is. What are we. What kind of books are we looking for?
[00:25:00] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:25:02] Speaker A: You know, for Aidan, that's usually a nonfiction book. For Millie, it's whatever she's into that week.
Does it sparkle? Does it shine?
Is there hearts and rainbows on it?
Does it sparkle or shine? Yep, that's that for her.
You know, I've also made them kind of be like, okay, so when we get there, who are we gonna ask for help if we need it? Or, you know, those kinds of things that.
And then we check in afterwards. Okay, did we find the book that we liked? Do we like the books we picked? And it's okay if we don't, you know?
[00:25:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Wasn't my favorite book. Okay, what do we do next time?
[00:25:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, disappointment is part of that executive functioning skill, too, and how to handle it, Right?
[00:25:49] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: So being able to talk through it is a great way to have kids, be able to be aware of it, first of all, and then be able to discuss it and kind of resolve the issue around it.
[00:26:01] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think one of the absolute best ways to do any of this executive functioning instruction is modeling, you know, and that is truly. That is what research backs us up on every single time.
You know, if you want your kids to kind of live out a certain value, the really one true way to see if that is going to be true is like, do you do it, like, if you don't want your kids to yell all the time that it's usually like, well, you know, how do you handle frustration? Do you lose it every time?
Well, you know, that's exactly. You know, sometimes, you know, no one's perfect. Everybody loses it sometimes.
But it is like, okay, it is a dose of one good look in the mirror and what am I doing to model executive functioning for my kids?
Show them that, you know, not all plan A's work out. That's. Okay.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: True.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: You know, very much. I think sometimes we get the idea that, like, goal setting is about perfect outcomes.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: Yeah, that's not really true.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: And that's not really true. But I think it also is a little bit the school model.
Right. That it's like, okay, my goal is that I'm going to write a story.
Okay. And it's going to look a certain way and it's going to sound a certain way.
And because it's all kind of step by step and the teacher is guiding and all the things, like, at the end of the day. Yeah. That is usually the outcome. Yeah.
But real life isn't really like that.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: So I do think we get a little bit stuck in the. Okay, well, but if I make a goal, then it has to be the perfect outcome.
[00:28:00] Speaker B: Exactly. But sometimes the imperfect outcome is better.
[00:28:03] Speaker A: Right. And that's that. Check and evaluate.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: Correct.
So, Maggie, what's happening outside dyslexia?
[00:28:11] Speaker A: Oh, so outside dyslexia. All of the things.
So much life happening we had. So this past weekend was my mom's birthday. She had kind of a bigger milestone birthday, and my brother, who lives a couple hours away from here, came with my two nieces, and they got all the cousin time, and it was so very exciting.
I have a niece who was born very, very premature, and she will be two in July.
And she is interacting and mimicking sounds and clapping and smiling, and I could totally cry about how much she's doing. So that was what we did this weekend. How about you?
[00:28:59] Speaker B: Yeah, we had a pretty good weekend. It was our anniversary, so we.
The kids went to with grandma and we got to watch the burger game, which is also in part of our summer routine.
But, yeah, it was very interesting because she decided to take them yesterday or Sunday to the splash pad. Oh, dear. Yeah, so it was bright, sunny, warm. They had all the plans, they got all the stuff. This is where the planning part went a little awry when it started raining.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: Oh, yes.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: And then they decided to stay because they were already wet and still play. So even though it wasn't the perfect goal or outcome, it still worked out.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: You know what I mean? That's the thing. They were outside. It was water play anyway. And it wasn't storming.
[00:29:46] Speaker B: No, it was just raining. So no lightning. So it was all safe and everything. But it was just funny that they just decided, okay, well, you know what?
[00:29:55] Speaker A: Sometimes those are the best outcomes, right? Like, what's the difference if I'm getting rained down by the sky or if I'm getting rained down by the splash pad.
[00:30:03] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:30:05] Speaker A: Oh, thank you, everybody, for listening. If you like our show, please follow us on social media and reach out. If you have any questions or would like us to discuss a topic, please be sure to give us a rating on your favorite podcast player. That is how we reach more listeners and we get to help our families. Thank you, everybody.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: Thank you.
