Episode 79–504 plans

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie. [00:00:00] Speaker B: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and our children. What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will also be covered in this podcast. Parents are not alone, and we want to give voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having. This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation. [00:00:34] Speaker A: Hi, everybody. Welcome to DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're going to start our episode like we do every week with the concept of the week. So the concept of the week is our opportunity as practitioners to kind of pull back the curtain a little bit and let everybody into an intervention so session. So we like to talk about things that either we're directly instructing to our students or their parents. Last week, we talked in depth about IEP plans and who's involved in those meetings and what different team members do. This week, we're going to talk about 504 plans. So that is our concept of the week as well. A 504 plan is A. A way for schools to provide support for students with a disability so they can learn in a regular classroom. The name 504 comes from section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act. This law prohibits discrimination against people with disabilities in programs or activities that receive federal funding at all. So this can be public schools and public institutions or private schools, if they receive any federal dollars at all. So as soon as a private entity accepts any federal dollars, they are subject to section 504 of the Rehab Act. [00:02:12] Speaker B: They. [00:02:12] Speaker A: That is almost everybody. So as soon as you accept any federal funds at all, even circuitously, you're Section 504 compliant. You have to be. So this ensures that students with disabilities can get a free education that works for them. [00:02:35] Speaker B: Nice. So guess what we're talking about in episode 79, 504 plans. Because we just dive deeply in our last episode in IEP plans, and now we have to talk about the other side. [00:02:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Because it. They are. They are different. A 504 plan and an IEP plan are not the same thing. I thought it would be nice to start with, like, a real brief history of actually, what is section 504? That's a good idea. And kind of how that all came about. So Section 504 of the Rehabilitation act is dates back to 1973, a landmark US civil rights law. This prohibits discrimination against individuals with disabilities in programs receiving federal financial assistance. Originally it was enacted to expand vocational educational services, so work services. It was the result of, you know, protests and all of that. Its enactment originally was in 1973. It passed as part of the Rehabilitation Act. Section 504. Right. So like that's that part of that larger bill it now. Right. It established that exclusion or denial of benefits based on disability is illegal. You cannot do that. It was a shift towards recognizing civil rights for disabled individuals. Section 504 sentence 1977 due to the government delaying in signing these regulations, activists organized nationwide protest. It was definitely large scale. The impact of those sentence was that the law mandates accessibility in education, public and post secondary health services, employment in really all settings, even recreational settings. So anytime we are accepting federal dollars, we need to make sure we're protecting individuals with physical or mental impairments. This really was. Right. The Rehabilitation act was a precursor to the Americans with Disability ACT or the ADA. Section 504 served as the model for the Americans with Disability act which passed in 1990. [00:05:13] Speaker B: That's a big difference. [00:05:14] Speaker A: It's a huge difference. It's a huge difference. I mean if we think back, it's very much in line with IDEA and its current in abolition too. I mean originally IDEA passed in 1973. Researchers can fact check me slightly, definitely early 70s but the renewal of that was not until 1994. 4. So definitely it's in line with other such protections for people with disabilities. And you know, listen guys, the last time we revisited this was in 1990. [00:05:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess that's nice. [00:05:58] Speaker A: It could use some, I would hope. [00:06:01] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:06:02] Speaker A: Those of us of a certain age feel like that was yesterday, but it really was not. Today's Section 504 is foundational for ensuring equal access. And we're going to talk about that a little bit later too. To services and education for people with disabilities. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Wow, that was a lot. [00:06:21] Speaker A: It is a lot. And that was the brief history. [00:06:23] Speaker B: That's a brief. So who must comply with section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act? [00:06:29] Speaker A: Oh, everybody. [00:06:33] Speaker B: Educational institution institutions, public elementary and secondary schools, public charter schools, school districts, colleges, universities that receive federal funds which if they have any kind of grants, that's typically a federal funded school. Health care and social services, which can include hospitals, nursing homes, clinics, social service providers because they all receive federal funding. Right. Medicaid and Medicare. They're all federal. [00:07:03] Speaker A: Exactly. I don't know that people always put that together. Like, actually, no. If they're receiving any of those funds, you have to comply at the end. [00:07:10] Speaker B: Yep. [00:07:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:11] Speaker B: Employers, like employers, agencies and organizations that receive federal assistance, Federal financial assistance, they also need to comply. State and local governments. Well, most of them do receive federal funds. [00:07:25] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:25] Speaker B: So that makes sense. Sense that they would have be included under this entries receiving federal grants. Like organizations receiving any federal funding for projects or services, they also have to comply. So what are the responsibilities for these organizations? [00:07:47] Speaker A: Yeah, first and foremost, non discrimination. Right. So all of those cumbered. They cannot exclude, deny services or discriminate against qualified individuals with disabilities. They must provide reasonable accommodation or modification. Employers must provide reasonable accommodations for employees and schools must provide appropriate academic adjustments in a 504 plan to ensure, again, equal access. We're going to get to that a little bit later when we talk about college plans and accessibility. This is really, really big part of section 504. Buildings and digital content must be accessible to individuals with disabilities. That's why when you walk into buildings, they have, you know, ramps or minimally yellow paint on curbs. When you walk into a building and there's brailed numbers on the doors. Don't get me started about Braille ATM machines that you drive up to. I don't want to talk about it. [00:08:59] Speaker B: Drives me nuts. But it depends too on when the building was built, what they fall under. Because older buildings can be grandfathered in. [00:09:10] Speaker A: Yes. [00:09:11] Speaker B: Because they didn't want it to be a hardship. [00:09:15] Speaker A: Correct. [00:09:16] Speaker B: Because there's certain buildings that there is no way to adapt. [00:09:20] Speaker A: Right. [00:09:20] Speaker B: In a way that wouldn't have completely torn down. [00:09:23] Speaker A: Exactly. And that's going to get way back to like the reasonable accommodation piece. [00:09:31] Speaker B: It's going to have to be revitaled from the top down. That's not really reasonable. [00:09:35] Speaker A: That's not reasonable. It cannot provide an undue financial hardship to a business. So yeah, it is. Yes. You have to comply. And there will be. There are like compliance officers. Right. Like it's a. [00:09:51] Speaker B: They go out and they actually go to buildings and they make sure. And. But depending on the age, like if it was built in the 1900s and it's like a historical building that's a little different. [00:10:06] Speaker A: Correct. [00:10:06] Speaker B: Then somebody that was built like two years ago, then they would have to comply. Right. [00:10:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it's already enforced. Correct. So yeah, the process. Right. There is a process for receiving a 504 plan in school, which is primarily what our audience is probably the most interesting interested in. And it starts with a referral so the process begins when a parent, a teacher, or healthcare provider suspects that a student has a disability. That limits, quote, major life activity, which actually comes straight from section 504. [00:10:56] Speaker B: That can include learning, reading, or concentrating. So we're getting back to what we do. [00:11:04] Speaker A: Yes. That referral has to come in writing to the school's 504 coordinator, which often, but not always, is the school's psychologist. [00:11:15] Speaker B: Okay. So then comes the evaluation. And unlike the intensive testing that's required for the IEP, a 504 evaluation is often less formal. So the team will review medical records or a doctor's diagnosis. The teacher might do observations, do some behavioral reports. They look at the academic records, including grades and maybe some test scores. Again, schools must have parental consent before they start this part of the evaluation. [00:11:52] Speaker A: Yes. Up to including anybody observing your child. [00:11:57] Speaker B: Correct. [00:11:57] Speaker A: Yep. [00:11:59] Speaker B: And then they have the eligibility meeting. And that's when a team of people who know the student, like maybe the teachers, principal, parents, they come together and they determine if the student qualifies to be eligible. The student must have a physical or mental impairment that significantly impacts their ability to function at school. School. Compared to their average peer. And I know some of those. That language. It's just the legal. [00:12:26] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the legal standard. [00:12:28] Speaker B: That's why it sounds kind of off. So then if they qualify, then they make the plan development. So the team then will write the 504 plan, and that can include environmental changes. So, like, maybe they get preferred seating in the classroom so they can see the board better quiet, room for testing. Maybe they have to be put away from the doors so that they're not distracted by people walking past. Those kind of things. Then there's instructional support, and that's like access to the audiobooks or copies of teacher notes. There are so many of those types. Testing accommodations, either extended time or maybe shortened assignments. [00:13:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Depending on the situation. If we're shortening length of assignments, we cannot be messing with the expected standard in a 504 plan. So that one can get a little bit tricky. [00:13:37] Speaker B: But if they have. Let's say they can say instead of they are giving the class 30 math problems, but after 10 problems, you know, if they have it or not. And their. Maybe their disability has something to do with, like, being able to write and fatigue, then maybe they can just give that student 10 questions because they can show that they understand the content. [00:14:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:14:03] Speaker B: In that way. [00:14:04] Speaker A: Yes. It's one they have to be pretty careful with. You know, that is that kind of that implementation part. Implementation means we're going to put this plan in place, we're going to share it with all the students, teachers who are legally required to follow it. I've been asked this question many, many times. A 504 plan is a legally bonding document, just like an IEP plan is. Yes, there are different laws, but actually a section 504 plan is legally binding. You do have to follow it. And then there is an usually annual review process. It's actually not legally required to review it every year, but it is typical practice that it is reevaluated on an annual basis. [00:15:01] Speaker B: And then usually just like an iep, a more thorough reevaluation typically occurs every three years. You can, I mean, if something's changed, obviously that can be changed too. But that's a typical time frame. [00:15:18] Speaker A: Yes. So who can qualify for an IEP plan? Students are eligible for a 504 plan if they have a disability that limits daily life activities. Could be self care, walking, seeing, breathing, like an asthma, hearing, speaking or learning, you know, including but not limited to kids with adhd, sometimes autism spectrum disorders. Diabetes is a. [00:15:52] Speaker B: That's a big one. [00:15:52] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a big one. Epilepsy, hearing problems or vision impairment, chronic health conditions like asthma or allergies, and mental health conditions such as anxiety and depression. That's definitely not an exhaustive list. [00:16:10] Speaker B: Right. Because even like a student returning to school after maybe a serious illness or injury may also qualify for a 504 plan. And maybe I'm just thinking of an example like if a student had cancer and now that they can't sustain the endurance that they used to have, maybe. [00:16:29] Speaker A: Usually it's like when we foresee a more limited time that may go into place for like a limited time. Right. Or a student returning to school after a concussion or multiple concussions also that that can be the case as well, I think, obviously. Why is this really confusing? The list you just heard, you're not crazy is also the list of things that may qualify somebody for an IEP plan. Right. Are overlapping. Yeah, the populations overlap is what I should say. Yes. [00:17:12] Speaker B: So how is the 504 plan made? Well, first, you know, the parent, teacher, other school member, healthcare provider, therapist, asks for the evaluation. And every school kind of handles the plans a little differently. Most have a 504 team that may include the principal, teachers, school school nurse, guidance counselor, psychologist. And the team looks at all the data, you know, grades, test scores, medical records, what the teachers are reporting, and then they decide if they're eligible or not. And then they decide on what kind of supports? Which is also called the accommodations. The students may need support so they can succeed. [00:18:03] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, super common question and worth revisiting. You know, how do 504 plans and individualized education programs differ? Really, the main difference is a 504 plan provides accommodations so that students can learn in a general education setting, provides equal access where an IEP plan is for specialized learning and this. And it falls right. To a special education teacher to provide that plan. The 504 plan usually doesn't change what the student is learning, but an IEP plan can. So those are pretty big differences. There are some common myths regarding Ivy, the 504 plan. [00:19:03] Speaker B: And I think we need to discuss those because we hear them a lot. [00:19:06] Speaker A: A lot. And I think like, these are really like critical. So myth number one, a 504 plan is the same as an IEP. Right. We kind of covered that. [00:19:17] Speaker B: We kind of did. But no, it is really not. It's very different laws. [00:19:22] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:22] Speaker B: They're covered by two different laws and they work very differently. Right. 504 Plan gives a child equal access to learning at school, while the IEP focuses on special education services. So that's a big difference. [00:19:39] Speaker A: Yeah, those are. There really is a big difference. Myth number two, a 504 plan isn't as good as an IEP. No, they are different. And different students need different things. The fact here. Right. Is a good plan is the one that fits the child space. So a child with a severe learning challenge probably does need special education through an iep. But another child who is truly academically doing. Oh, okay. And needs the accommodation piece may thrive much better on a. On a 504 plan. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:25] Speaker A: You know, and some kids who. Some kids who learn and think differently don't need either one of those plans. [00:20:34] Speaker B: True. [00:20:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:36] Speaker B: Myth number three, a 504 plan can only give accommodations, not services. [00:20:43] Speaker A: Yeah. This one I'm going to give like a partially true too. Some people think that a 504 plan cannot include services. And it depends on how we define services. The U.S. department of Education says that a 504 plan can include school services. Right. So things that are delivered inside the building. For example, some 504 plans can offer things like speech therapy or study skills classes that are supplemental. Not all kids are getting them. It is far less common, though, especially on the speech therapy side of things. If it's like a short term recovery kind of thing, maybe the study skills classes are kind of those executive functioning education. That is something more frequently I would see covered in a 504 plan and the services in a 504 plan. They cannot be the same services that would be offered as in an IEP plan because they are funding through vastly different services sources. [00:22:01] Speaker B: Myth number four, students can't get 504 accommodation for advanced or AP classes. [00:22:08] Speaker A: I actually do hear this one a lot and no, they absolutely can. There are many kids with 504 plans who are in advanced placement classes. Kids who learn and thinks differently and can even be intellectually gifted. A student with a 504 plan and is advanced classes has the same rights. I will say it again. Same rights as in other classes. The right to equal access to learning. So this may mean accommodations like text to speech technology or extra time for assignments. It is true that like, if There is a 504 plan in place in school, it doesn't automatically mean that that student can qualify for accommodations like the AP10 test, which I think is maybe where this comes from. You have to apply separately for those accommodations. Like you would have to apply separately for the ACT accommodations, but it does not mean that they are not available. [00:23:10] Speaker B: Myth number five, 504 plans are for kids with ADHD. No. [00:23:19] Speaker A: Yes, ADHD is a common way to qualify for a 504 plan. But this is a huge swath of the population we're talking about. We're talking about kids that may be diabetic, they may have severe allergies, they may have some mobility issues, they may have anxiety or depression. Many kids with many different needs would qualify for a 504 plan. [00:23:45] Speaker B: And myth six, there are 504 plans in college. [00:23:50] Speaker A: Yeah, okay, I see where this one comes from. It is true that There are no IEPs or 504 plans, so to speak, in college. Students who qualify do have the right to accommodations in college. However, it won't be the same as a 504 plan. Colleges have different requirements for getting accommodations. They still do have to absolutely comply. They must provide accommodations through the Americans with Disabilities Act, Title 2 and 3. To qualify for those kinds of services, it is on the student to proactively register with the Students with Disabilities office on their individual campus. They have to provide the documentation of their disability. They have to request reasonable accommodations there. That is again, colleges are not required to provide accommodations that fundamentally alter their academic programs or cause undue financial or administrative burdens. So yes, there's not going to be a 504 plan that meets annually and has specific goals. But there are avenues towards accommodations on college campuses and it is illegal for them to discriminate against a student based on a disability. [00:25:21] Speaker B: So, Maggie, what's happening outside dyslexia? [00:25:23] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness, a lot of things. So this weekend as we record this, this is actually a Friday, Friday the 13th. Spooky. We will have another Friday the 13th next month in March, which kind of makes me laugh because my daughter, her due date, her original due date was of Friday the 13th in March. She came a couple weeks early, so. So we are preparing for her birthday coming up next weekend. [00:25:58] Speaker B: She's gonna be six. Holy shmoly. [00:26:03] Speaker A: Those of you doing math at home, yes, that does mean she was born in 2020, right before the world imploded. So that was fun. What is going on with you, Nicole? I am. [00:26:19] Speaker B: Looking forward to having a couple weeks of break after our end of basketball season and running children everywhere because they like to go everywhere when they're in school. [00:26:38] Speaker A: O well everybody, thank you for listening. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or you would like us to discuss a topic. If you if you like our show, be sure to follow and rate us on your favorite podcast players. This is how we reach more listeners and get to help more families. Thank you everybody. [00:26:57] Speaker B: Thank you.