[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast.
We are so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children.
What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will also be covered in this podcast.
Parents are not alone, and we want to give voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having.
This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Hi, everybody.
Welcome to episode 71, Love Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast.
We're going to start today's episode like we do every week, with the concept of the week.
So the concept of the week is our ability as practitioners to kind of pull back that curtain and let everybody into an intervention session. We like to teach about things that either we would teach directly to our students and or their families.
Today's concept of the week is literacy.
Most people's narrow definition of literacy.
Right. Is like the ability to read and write, but literacy is so much more broad than that. Literacy. Right. The ability to identify, understand, interpret, create, communicate, and compute using various forms of information.
So print, digital, visual, oral language, our speaking abilities for the purpose of achieving goals, developing potential, and fully participate in society.
So that version of the definition of literacy, I feel like, truly defines the work we do at dyslexia.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Like, that is my view of literacy and really why we do what we do. Right.
Especially the part fully participate in society. Correct.
So not just academics.
[00:02:29] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: Academics are important.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: Yes, they are.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: But they are not the end all be all.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: So we thought episode 71 would be interesting if we talk about different types of literacy.
[00:02:42] Speaker A: I love it. Yay.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: I love it.
So let's review just basic reading literacy. Right?
[00:02:57] Speaker A: Good idea.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: So that is an educational framework of components that we use to build reading ability.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: Basically, yes.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: So like our phonological awareness, you recognize the sounds in spoken language, such as rhymes and syllables, and you're able to use those in everyday.
And then there's phonics, where you're connecting letters, which are the graphemes, remember, to the sounds, which is the phonemes to decode words.
Fluency is the ability to read a text accuracy quickly and with appropriate expression.
Then there's vocabulary, where we understand the meaning of words to communicate effectively. Oh, my goodness. Today, comprehension is the understanding and interpreting the Meaning that is read and then oral language is building the foundation of speaking skills.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: Yes.
So as a group. Right. That phonological awareness, phonics, fluency, vocabulary, comprehension, oral language, sometimes that's referred to as the big six.
Right. So if you hear that, that's what I mean. You will. If you're, if you're around the circles we're in, you'll hear that the big six.
It's not Mickey, Minnie, Pluto, Donald, Daisy, it's not them.
That's the sensational six, but.
Or sometimes the five pillars. Sometimes phonological awareness and phonics get like smushed together together and then they're the five pillars.
So if you hear either of those terms in this world, that's what they're talking about. Yes.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: So in modern days, we have different types of literacy now. Right.
So like, as technology evolves, we now have digital literacy.
What is digital literacy?
[00:05:23] Speaker A: So digital literacy, extremely important. Right.
It is the ability safely accessing, managing and creating information using digital technologies, including AI and also social media.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: That's a big one.
[00:05:46] Speaker A: It's a big one and it's a big one. I have big feels about it, but like it or not, it's there. It's there.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: It's not gonna go away.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: It's not going away. And it is part of, it's part of the fabric and it is part of what is needed to be a literate person in this world.
[00:06:09] Speaker B: Yes. So some like examples. Right.
You know, we have to teach students and adults.
Yeah, yeah.
Not to talk to people they don't know. On social media, AI is not always 100. Correct. No, actually it's mostly wrong. Yep. Sometimes.
Depends on the topic.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: It cannot do.
Right. It cannot do both inductive and deductive reasoning.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: Not the same as a human brain. Yes, thinkinus.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: It is. Yeah. That's when the sci fi movies take over.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: Right. It is only as good as the information it is then.
[00:06:57] Speaker B: Correct.
And so taking information, like we had students this year from high schools, they looked up dyslexia on AI. Yeah. Do you know how accurate that was? Yeah, yeah. We had to say no, no, no, no, no, no. That is not what dyslexia means. That is not how it presents.
And it didn't have the right.
Terms even that goes with dyslexia. So just being aware that that is something that it can help you.
Yes, but it's not research one.
It's like things that it finds on the Internet. Right. And we know on the Internet not everything's true.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: AI is a Tool, like other tools.
It's a new tool to us and it is becoming very rapidly a part of the way we. The way we do. Right, correct. But it is a tool just like everything else. And so we don't have those base skills or reasoning.
Just like with the social media piece.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: You know, how you present your own self through social media and then also how you interpret other people's social media. The fact that both social media and AI are algorithm driven.
Right. So they are only going to feed you the information they think it wants you to see. They want to keep your attention. Right.
So they're not going to feed you all of the stories.
It's trying to guess what you want. Right.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: And then the other thing. Right. Is that information on social media, that managing it.
Some things are fake. Yeah. And some things are not true.
And if you're not aware of that, you can fall down a rabbit hole into unreliable sources.
And I know that there's somebody on social media who says that they can cure dyslexia in six weeks.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, Six weeks.
[00:09:25] Speaker B: Six weeks.
[00:09:26] Speaker A: Six weeks, even worse.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: And you're like, wait a minute, how do you think.
No, you guys, it's a lifelong.
It is how.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: Right. Conspiracy theories get their right. Get their root right. And almost always there's a little kernel.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: Of truth to it. Exactly.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: So you follow that little kernel and before you know it, you're way over your head.
Those are all things that.
To be digitally literate means being able to think, filter those things based on actual skills.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: It's more complicated than it seems. It is.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: I mean, me too. I've been suckered by social media stuff. Oh, definitely. I've been suckered by like, oh, this looks like a really cool thing. And then I get so far in before I realize, oops, I just wasted.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: My time because that is not real.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: That's not even real.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: So it's.
We're not picking on kids here.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: It's just. These are hard, everybody.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
This next one is media literacy.
So being able to critically evaluate information and identify disinformation, propaganda and. Or fake news.
Oh, boy.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: I can't even get. I can't even fake news. But it's true.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Right?
[00:10:59] Speaker A: Like, it is true that there is fake news.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:04] Speaker A: That is.
Its sole purpose is to distract and divide.
[00:11:10] Speaker B: Correct.
People pay for it.
[00:11:12] Speaker A: People pay for it.
It's a. It's a real thing. So being able to read an article, understand the source of something.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: That's all media literacy. And it's becoming more Difficult to tell.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: To tell.
[00:11:32] Speaker A: There are credible publications who have to issue major retractions because they too have chased down sources that are not correct or fake.
So it's not just us.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: It's hard. It is hard.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: So then it comes financial literacy, understanding budgeting, investment, economic concepts for your own personal stability. Yeah. I mean, that's a whole different ballgame.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: It's a whole different ballgame. And so, so, so important.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: I mean, so many adults. I know. Really. I mean, me too. Right. Who hasn't made a bad financial decision.
But, but even that idea to okay, you make a bad financial decision and then, oh, what, how do I fix it? So instead of compounding my poor financial decision, how do I get myself out of this hole and you know, taking on too much debt, taking, you know, doing.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Understanding a budget.
I don't think that's taught in school anymore.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: And if it is, and I will, I mean, I will say this.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: If it is.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: I mean, personal finances classes are absolutely still offered at almost all high schools.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: However, some kids are like actively discouraged from taking personal finance because it's quote unquote, a too easy class.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: Like, no, no, no. You actually mean the events pre.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Kill. Don't take.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: You know, I, I was a student who was literally told that to my face by my high school counselor, who I like my high school counselor. We're still in touch.
So she was, she was just doing what she was told. Really? Truly.
But like, want to know what class would have helped me a lot more than ap Calculated personal finance.
Probably should have taken it.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: There's no other place to actually learn that. Right. It's. It's. Unless you know somebody who's a financial advisor who will do classes for you. Right.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: Unless your parents are excellent financial people. Like, raise your hand if you're not that me, you know.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: Doing my best with my kids.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: But yeah.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Unless you're seeking it out elsewhere, it can be difficult to find correct financial advice.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: Then we go to health literacy.
Health literacy is the ability to find and understand medical information and make informed healthcare decisions.
I feel like this is quite a big topic.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: Huge.
[00:14:30] Speaker B: Being a healthcare worker.
Yeah.
And medical terms are not easy to understand.
[00:14:40] Speaker A: No, they're not.
[00:14:41] Speaker B: And so being able to understand the medical information and then being able to make decisions off of that is not an easy process. You need high level executive functioning skills, problem solving skills, and in the middle of usually being in a very emotional state. Yeah.
[00:15:00] Speaker A: And when you layer on too, this doesn't even cover. So it's not only the ability to like make medical decisions for oneself, but then the interaction between the medical system and insurance companies. Oh yeah. I think factors in here so much.
I don't think anybody prepares you for that because not even the physicians can navigate that.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: You know, this is where you have physicians telling you you need a certain medication and then the insurance company is not allowing that to happen.
[00:15:37] Speaker B: And then what do you do?
[00:15:38] Speaker A: And then what do you do?
[00:15:40] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: What are, what are your rights and responsibilities here?
[00:15:47] Speaker B: And usually those rights are like 20 to 50 pages long.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:15:53] Speaker B: And how many people can read them? Nobody.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: I mean, I. I mean honestly. Honestly. I mean, goodness gracious.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: And really good. Healthcare systems have a health literacy team.
And that team or committee will look at documents that are produced by the either the system wide healthcare system or the hospital and they'll look at it to make sure that it's understandable.
And they usually pick which.
Not really sure how I feel about this, but usually 5th grade literacy levels.
I honestly would prefer 4th.
[00:16:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with you.
I agree with you. Because we know the data on.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: And when are you trying to navigate this not at your best.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: I, I do not want to have to expend all of my.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: Brain power. I mean I'm a skilled reader and I still. I'm a skilled reader with a background in neurodivergence.
I read lots of studies. I, I am not a healthcare worker.
[00:17:14] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: However, I do have a minor in neuroscience. I'm not a novice person. Right.
Yeah. I rub elbows with healthcare and I still struggle here.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: So even like taking bigger terms that they use, they'll break them down into simpler things. Like.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: We'Re not saying neurodivergent, we're saying differences in people's brains.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, exactly. Or like instead of her recommended need, take when it hurts, when you need it.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: Right.
[00:18:05] Speaker B: It's just breaking down those longer terms and making it accessible to everybody.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: Yes. And that's hard.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: It is hard.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: That's hard.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: It is very hard. Yeah. Cause you know, even in like what we do in healthcare, we're educated to use those terms because we have to when we write to insurance. Yeah.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: When you write to insurance or when you're really trying to target a very specific term. Right, Right. The reason the specific term exists is because it does have a specific concrete meaning.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: And sometimes. Right. You have to call a spade a spade. Right. Like sometimes that term is appropriate. Just like when we write our evaluation reports. Right. We do our best to make them very parent accessible.
At the same time, we have to use the very specific, often medical term that we mean to say, so that we're being clear and specific.
So even ourselves, when we're writing those reports, we are walking a line. Because I absolutely want the parent to be able to pick this report up and read it and understand their child.
But I also need that report to be very specific for the doctor to say exactly what I mean it to say.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: Right?
[00:19:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: So the doctor can understand, jurors can understand.
So there's different people that read these things. That's also a challenge, Right?
[00:19:47] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: So I mean, I think that that is not always understood.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Right. I mean, in our world, phonological and phonemic awareness, right.
Those two terms are thrown around and kind of smushed together.
And most of the time that's all right.
Okay. Most of the time it's not that big of a deal until we are, as professionals talking about those two things.
And we do need to know the difference, because there is a difference.
And to appropriately target intervention, we need to know those differences.
Other times it's all right, it's not a big deal.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: So just be aware that, you know, sometimes, especially if they don't have like a health literacy committee or something, some of the times, those sheets that they give you, like the after summaries, you might not understand them. And that's okay because honestly, they might be written at a level that is not consistent with what a typical reader.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: Can read and being able to.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: Know.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: What to do about that. Right.
How do I get a social worker involved? A social worker should have the resources to be able to interpret, slash, get me the services I need. But how do I even access that?
That's still part of being health literate.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Then we get to scientific and environmental literacy, which you interpret scientific data and understand global issues like climate change.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: That's a thing.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: That's a whole thing. And Right. The ability to understand statistics.
The ability to understand things like a standard score, percentile, rank, or what am I actually reading and seeing here?
[00:21:59] Speaker B: And what does it mean?
[00:22:00] Speaker A: And what does it mean?
[00:22:01] Speaker B: And then how do you apply it to everyday life or whatever you're using it for? Yeah, so they said with some.
There's some trends that are starting to emerge.
So like they're trying to intersect literacy with social economic equity. Sorry, that's a word I have.
And new teaching methods, which is interesting.
So like we talk about the science of reading, right? That's the evidence based practice from neuroscience and logistics. Logistics that we use in the classroom.
[00:22:45] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Right. That's, that is the body of research that we use to teach reading and other subjects as well.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: Spoiler alert.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: But yeah, that's, those are the things that are.
I'm happy to see that this is in fact trending, at least as a term.
But how that data is being used to drive instruction is what is very important here.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Then there's culturally responsive literacy, which is incorporating the diverse voices and lived experiences into curricula to engage all students, which we all come from different backgrounds, so that makes a lot of sense to me.
[00:23:36] Speaker A: Right. Well. And as the student in the classroom, you deserve to learn about people who are like you.
That people connect more to stories if they can recognize themselves in the protagonist. It's just like that is true. That is true. That is true.
[00:24:01] Speaker B: Right now I'm avoiding any books that are 40 plus because I can't handle.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: I don't want to talk about it. Yeah. Sometimes we're fed a little too much.
[00:24:13] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:24:14] Speaker A: Of this. I, I, I have to, I put you there. It's just like when you're a brand new, brand new mom and all you're fed is like mommy stories.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: Yes.
And you're like, this is okay. Awful. Okay. Handle. No, thank you.
[00:24:39] Speaker A: Totally that.
[00:24:42] Speaker B: Adult and family literacy is also a trending thing right now where it's promoting learning as a lifelong process, often focusing on overcoming poverty or supporting second language learners, which that makes sense to me. Yeah.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Happy to see that trending. It's really important. Right. One of the things we know is that the more our children see literacy as important and see us reading and interpreting, the more they are going to do it. They learn by seeing, they see our models.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: And then another trend is AI and literacy. So exploring how artificial intelligence tools can support or challenge reading and writing development, which I think I like that they put support or challenge. Right.
[00:25:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I do like that. You know, and it is so hard. I will say listeners will know this by me by now.
I tend to be a resistor tinfoil hat wearer a little bit when it comes to AI and social media. I am not really personally on social media. I do not, it's not, I don't like it for a lot of reasons.
I don't do a lot of chatgpt. I will do it, I will use it sometimes sparingly.
But here it is. And it is really important that I even for my own kids. Right. If I don't want them on it, which I don't, why don't I want them on it? And Being able to clearly explain to that is also part of that literacy. Building it in them.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: We still have to teach them what it is and how it works and why it can be a tool or why it cannot be between all. But. Right.
[00:26:43] Speaker A: Our guests. We had guests on our
[email protected] right. They are using AI, right. To create decodable reads and decodable lesson plans and things like that that are really are shown to be helpful and effective. So it's a tool like everything else. And it is going to be interesting to see what sticks around and what goes away.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. And how it develops further. Right.
So, Maggie, what's happening beyond dyslexia?
[00:27:26] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Right?
All the talking today.
[00:27:30] Speaker A: All the talking today. All the talking today.
Yeah. As we record this, we are again, December. Things are kind of crazy right now, but we are doing all the Christmas things. So over the weekend, one of the traditions in our family is we do.
We decorate gingerbread houses.
So I do like the graham crackers. You glue them together. Well, I hot glue them together. I don't mess around with the royal icing.
We're not eating these after my dinner.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: That's good to know. Yeah.
[00:28:08] Speaker A: I use hot glue to put them together and then I go over it with icing later. But we just. It's really fun. We've been doing this with the kids since they were really tiny. So I have the pictures going back from like, Millie was just a little infant when we started doing it. And it's always just been really fun to watch kind of over the years. The house is sort of evolve.
So. And it was fun because we all do it. So all four of us in our family. And then we like, they're part of our, like, just display. Yeah. And so my mom came over this morning. She was gonna take the kids to school and hang out for a little bit.
And Millie made her guess whose house was whose because they're little.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: Sweet.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And it was fun. She got them all. Good job, mom.
But it was just.
It's just fun. It's just a fun thing that we do.
We all get into it. We put on the Christmas music. And it's one of my favorite little Gunther family traditions that we've been doing ever since the kids were tiny. What's going on with you?
[00:29:20] Speaker B: Yeah. So our kids are.
It's been interesting this year. This year the kids have bought some things for the family. Yeah.
You can tell the different.
So Catherine did it at school because they had a little fair. And now the other two had a little affair. So they did it at school, too.
Catherine has it great under the tree, no problem. Carolyn's hit her, so we can't find it.
[00:29:50] Speaker A: Miss Florida gave them to us.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: So kind of an interesting little.
[00:29:57] Speaker A: That is. It's so funny because usually Millie and Carolyn are like our little, like.
Yeah, like little copy paste kids.
But it's funny because I got in the car the other day and Millie had made me a little ornament and speech at school.
And it was so funny because it was this. This big secret, right? But she had spilled the beans weeks ago.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: Right?
[00:30:28] Speaker A: But I get in the car, she's like, mom, this is for you. And then she unwraps it.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Wilson didn't even wrap it.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: It was so funny.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Handed us all of her gifts.
[00:30:39] Speaker A: Oh, my God.
[00:30:39] Speaker B: Which was hilarious because he did pick them out himself and they were really cute, but it was just really funny.
[00:30:48] Speaker A: The differences between the people they made.
[00:30:50] Speaker B: Their gifts cracked up.
[00:30:51] Speaker A: So funny. So funny. Well, thank you, everybody. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or would like us to discuss a topic. If you do like our show, be sure to follow us and rate us on your favorite podcast players. This is how we reach more listeners and get to help our families. Thank you, everybody.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: Thank you.
