Episode 72-Graphic Novels and Motivation

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie. [00:00:01] Speaker B: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children. What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will also be covered in this podcast. Parents are not alone, and we want to give voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having. This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation. [00:00:35] Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Welcome to episode 72 of Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. Oh, boy. Starting off good. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Today. [00:00:48] Speaker A: We'Re gonna start our episode like we do every week, with the concept of the week. Concept of the week is our opportunity as practitioners peel back that curtain and let everyone into an intervention session. We like to teach about things that we are either directly teaching to our students or their families. So, you know, teachers got to teach. Today's concept of the week is motivation. Motivation is the internal drive or external incentive that pushes you to ask. Right? So it's giving purpose to a behavior. All right? Sometimes they're categorized into intrinsic motivation, which means it's coming from within or extrinsic from the outside. Things like rewards, you know, benefits. Right. Easier task initiation. We can achieve goals, increase satisfaction. So setting those clear, small goals and finding your why. All right, that motivation is kind of that why piece. I think motivation sometimes gets really misunderstood. [00:02:12] Speaker B: I agree. [00:02:14] Speaker A: I think this is often misunderstood, but really, it really just is kind of that why? And it can be internal, and it can be extrinsic. And if I may step on a soapbox for a minute, sometimes that idea of internal and external or, like, intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation, sometimes it's like this really big push for, like, you really want your students to be intrinsically motivated to do something. And while I think that's true, none of us are fully intrinsically motivated to do everything that we have to do. Some things we don't. We just don't want to do them. And we need an external motivator to do that. [00:03:04] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:03:05] Speaker A: Like, I did not want to get out of bed this morning, but I knew I was gonna cut the puppy. [00:03:12] Speaker B: So I did get a pet, Right? [00:03:16] Speaker A: Like, I don't. Some of us don't want to go. [00:03:20] Speaker B: To work every single day, but I. [00:03:23] Speaker A: Think we do want our paycheck, Right? Exactly. It's all those things that. Yes. All of us are both intrinsically motivated. Something comes from within. [00:03:36] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:36] Speaker A: And also extrinsically motivated. So sometimes I think we just have unrealistic expectations of kids. Like they should just be intrinsically motivated to read. Well, they're not gonna. Because this kid just isn't gonna. [00:03:53] Speaker B: Right. So obviously everybody's different. [00:03:58] Speaker A: Right, Exactly. [00:04:01] Speaker B: So episode 72 is about graphic novels and motivation. I know. We decided to combine a couple topics today because they kind of go along with each other. [00:04:14] Speaker A: They do. [00:04:16] Speaker B: So one of the most common questions we get from our students or families is, is graphic novel something you should. Right. [00:04:28] Speaker A: Is it okay to be. You know, sometimes I even get like my student, my kid only reads graphic novels. Is that going to do damage? [00:04:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:40] Speaker A: So truly, we get asked this all the time. [00:04:47] Speaker B: All the time. I. I probably would say almost with every family. [00:04:51] Speaker A: Agree. [00:04:52] Speaker B: Because I think graphic novels have a lot of things in them that are externally pleasant. [00:05:00] Speaker A: Agree. [00:05:00] Speaker B: For our readers. [00:05:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I totally agree. And there are just so many more of them. It used to be like when we were growing up, graphic novels essentially were only comic books. [00:05:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:05:18] Speaker A: And they were basically your superheroes or you're kind of like Japanese manga kind of. [00:05:28] Speaker B: Right. [00:05:30] Speaker A: Books. And if that wasn't your preferred genre, then you didn't read them. [00:05:35] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah. [00:05:36] Speaker A: But it's. It's so different now. [00:05:38] Speaker B: It is so different now. Yeah. So yes, the answer is they're real books and they're good to read. Yeah. [00:05:48] Speaker A: Just in case you're. Shortest episode ever. [00:05:50] Speaker B: There we go. [00:05:51] Speaker A: They're good. [00:05:51] Speaker B: They're good. So what is a graphic novel? Graphic novels are stories written and illustrated in the style of a comic. So there's a lot of illustration that combines with bursts of text often presented in like little triangles or panels. And the story does unfold in a clear sequence and is often action packed and kind of funny. Yes. And they can be fiction, they can be historical fiction, fantasy, science fiction, fairy tales, or they can be a nonfiction. So like something in history or biography or informational. They have exploded into different genres all over the place. [00:06:40] Speaker A: The babysitter's cubs books, the ones like we grew up with. [00:06:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:45] Speaker A: There's a graphic novel series now and they're really good. They're. They're really good. And there's. They really. They really have exploded. And it's pretty cool to see. Yeah. [00:07:01] Speaker B: Yes. Because before, like you said, there was like two things, but now, yeah, pretty much all topics are okay to go into a graphic novel. So. So yes, they're real Books, they're widely accepted by librarians and teachers that they're worth reading by kids of all ages and reading levels. I think, because, you know, they offer now strong characters, lots of vocabulary, there's an actual storyline, and they're really appropriate. Yeah. [00:07:38] Speaker A: And I love, I love them actually. For vocabulary instruction. [00:07:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:45] Speaker A: Because often the vocabulary can be really advanced. [00:07:51] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:51] Speaker A: Because they have the graphics to support that vocabulary. [00:07:56] Speaker B: So. Right. [00:07:57] Speaker A: It's. It's a cool way to expand vocabulary for kids especially. Are really resistant readers. [00:08:07] Speaker B: Correct. And we even have a series that are decodable. [00:08:11] Speaker A: Yep. [00:08:12] Speaker B: And there's still a graphic novel. And it's the same layout. They're just decodable words. And it's like the first one has certain things just like our decodable books that we practiced. Now we're reading them. [00:08:25] Speaker A: Scope and sequence to them. [00:08:27] Speaker B: Yes. [00:08:27] Speaker A: Yep. [00:08:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think a lot of times too, students really like those extra things that are in a graphic novel with like, zoom. [00:08:36] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. The onomatopoeia. It's my favorite kind of word. Yeah. My favorite kind of word. [00:08:42] Speaker B: But you can teach them that when you're reading the grammar novel. [00:08:46] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Because they all have something like that in them. [00:08:50] Speaker A: Yeah. I, I really, you know, and I have. I have to say, because I think part of it is because of just I'm an old lady. Right. I think of graphic novels as like comic books. And I never didn't think comic books were fine. Like, it just, it wasn't necessarily what I was into. So I don't think I really gave them a good chance. I was not a person as a kid who read graphic novels. I was not into Captain Underpants. I was, I was the wrong. Right era. Just wrong crowd, I think, for the Captain Underpants. But yeah, you know, now Dogman. [00:09:48] Speaker B: Yes. [00:09:48] Speaker A: But it just, it wasn't what I was into. So I don't think I really gave it their, like, fair shake until I started teaching middle and high school. And I think I started teaching middle and high school. I mean, I became a teacher in 2012, officially. This was probably the beginning of the, like, ramp up of graphic novels. I would say, like the last 10 to 15 years has been like the boom. [00:10:16] Speaker B: I would agree. [00:10:17] Speaker A: And I was teaching that whole time. So in real time, I've been seeing kids come in with these, like, more complex texts and very interesting stories. And so I, I think I've. I've come around a lot on graphic novels. I understand why maybe they are a little looked down upon until you start reading them and understanding them. I Get it? [00:10:46] Speaker B: Yep, I get it. [00:10:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:48] Speaker B: And like, some popular authors that wrote novels are now doing. [00:10:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:54] Speaker B: Novels too. Yeah. So it's kind of interesting, the change even in the authors. [00:11:02] Speaker A: Right. And the content. Like. Right. I mean, no shade to Dave Pilkey. He did a thing, and boy, he did it well. And. And good for him. He is furthering the cause for. [00:11:15] Speaker B: Yes. [00:11:15] Speaker A: Dissect. Dissect learners. Yay. Dave Hilkey. I have no problem with him. It's just that graphic novels are more. Are more than just the potty humor these days. [00:11:29] Speaker B: But they do get kids interested. [00:11:31] Speaker A: But they do get kids interested in. [00:11:32] Speaker B: That age group, I think. [00:11:34] Speaker A: Absolutely. Like I said, I. You know, he did the thing, and, boy, did he do a thing. But. [00:11:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:42] Speaker A: But even if that's not your thing, give him a chance. [00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:51] Speaker B: So how does graphic novels help build children's literacy skills? What was our topic of the day? [00:12:00] Speaker A: I mean, a big part of that. Right. That reading motivation, especially for our resistance readers. Those graphic novels, first of all, they're very popular. [00:12:10] Speaker B: Correct. [00:12:11] Speaker A: And they are appealing to the readers who. We just may not pick up a more traditional book on their own. They can. They could really be, like a welcoming door. Right. They open a book and they're. They can read it. And if they can't read all the words, they can follow the pictures. And they're interesting. [00:12:37] Speaker B: Right. They're very colorful, and there's lots of illustrations. Usually I think they're. It builds confidence, too. Right. Because. They can see what is happening in the story as they go. So even if they miss a word, they still understand the story. And that's. Right. That's keeping them engaged into the whole. [00:13:04] Speaker A: It really is, you know, and usually I do like to. I love them for, like, social communication because it's almost all dialogue because of the way the story is set up. It's almost all characters talking to each other. And usually it's really smart dialogue. [00:13:26] Speaker B: It is. Yeah. [00:13:27] Speaker A: I mean, even Dave Pilkey, Right. Like, okay, fine, it's potty humor, but it's also really smart. There he. It's. [00:13:39] Speaker B: And honestly, if you. I don't know if you've read the Cat Kid. Yep. [00:13:45] Speaker A: Yep. [00:13:45] Speaker B: Those aren't as potty humor. [00:13:47] Speaker A: No, they aren't. [00:13:48] Speaker B: And they have some pretty big, like, publisher. [00:13:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:53] Speaker B: Like, because they're trying to publish their comics that they're making. And, like, there's this whole big story on them. And just thinking about, wow, that's really inventive. Yes. There's a lot of stuff you can get out of those. [00:14:12] Speaker A: A lot of stuff. And a lot of graphic novels, too, tend to have a lot of, like, pun kind of humor, which, I mean, come on. I love a play on words, of course. Right. That's just speaking right to the reading teacher's heart. But it does. It's allowing access to those reluctant readers. And they do appeal. There's been quite a lot of studies, like kids with ADHD or on the spectrum, who tend not to fully understand that kind of humor. Get it. If it's in a graphic novel. [00:14:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:53] Speaker A: Because there's the picture. There's to support why that is, in fact, funny. [00:14:59] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:14:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:00] Speaker B: And it also gives them kind of that visual literacy too, where they kind of have to look at the pictures. [00:15:07] Speaker A: Closely so that they can kind of. [00:15:10] Speaker B: Figure out the characters and the plot and stuff. [00:15:12] Speaker A: Facial expressions are happening. Exactly. Yep. [00:15:18] Speaker B: I agree that that's a very big aspect to that. [00:15:21] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, and they can communicate sarcasm in that way too. So, like, not only puns, but like, that sarcasm too. Because the pictures will show a face. Correct. And the text may not fully match that picture. [00:15:38] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:15:39] Speaker A: So it's paying attention to that. It's like teaching nuance without having to eat the over the head of it, you know, I mean, it's amazing. [00:15:46] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. And then obviously, I like to. When they have those onomaludias. [00:15:53] Speaker A: Yes. [00:15:53] Speaker B: Because you actually have to decode those. Some of them are not really real words sometimes. Correct. Yeah. And so you actually have to, like, decode the sounds in them. Biff. [00:16:07] Speaker A: Yeah. It brings me joy because I, I have to. I. I think I always think of the old school Batman, like with Adam West. Oh, yeah, that Batman. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Where in the TV show Pow. Pow. [00:16:29] Speaker A: I grew up watching that, like reruns of that all the time. But it just. I don't know, it brings me. Brings me joy, I have to say. [00:16:40] Speaker B: Also, like, the story structures are more detailed. They're stitched together. Some of them, like, go from book to book. So you're starting to learn series books, right? [00:16:52] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:55] Speaker B: And like, it helps the student be able to say what paper should be next, what happened in the story, which is comprehension people. [00:17:04] Speaker A: It's huge. Right. And if there is kind of like a flashback. [00:17:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:08] Speaker A: They will sometimes have to, like, flashback to a previous story and you have to kind of recall it, you know. [00:17:17] Speaker B: Of course, one of them that says, don't you remember I'm the bad guy from book one. And I just, I'm like, yes, that's exactly. [00:17:28] Speaker A: Because it makes that connection it makes that connection. [00:17:34] Speaker B: And like we said too, the word learning is major because they don't have to stick to certain words. Right. Because they have illustrations to go along with them. [00:17:46] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. You know, those high level vocabulary words that supported with a picture. Now they have, now they have that picture in their brain of this word and they're way more likely to use it, especially in oral language. [00:18:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I know the American Library association has like a list of them so that you can kind of pick, you know, subjects or things that your kids are interested in. [00:18:17] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:18] Speaker B: Or just going to the library and asking the librarian. They'll know. [00:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, there's just. They're very, they're very cool. I love them for a lot of reasons. I think we get the question too. Not only should my kid read graphic novels, you know, do I want someone only reading graphic novels? [00:18:41] Speaker B: No. [00:18:41] Speaker A: Because I want kids reading multiple genres. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:46] Speaker A: But it's a good way to start. But it's a great way to start. And if it is your child's preferred reading format, then let them read a lot of those and then supplement with things that look different than that. It's a good way to build the muscle of exposure to many different kinds of things. And I, I think it is often a way in for kids who are not reading, especially whole books. There's a lot of concern and. Concerning data coming out about just the decline of kids and adults both reading full books from COVID to cover. [00:19:37] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:39] Speaker A: These absolutely count as full books. [00:19:41] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:19:43] Speaker A: And often they are written in series, so it's like they have to get their hands on the next one. [00:19:53] Speaker B: There is a psychologist that did research on the different kinds of motivation for reading. So the first one was curiosity. The desire to learn about a topic. Makes sense to me. It's gonna make me read stuff. Makes me read too much stuff. But aesthetics, the enjoyment of experiencing the literate text. Yeah, the challenge, learning complex ideas from text, Social reading in groups during instruction, or sharing texts through social situations. Why are there so many book clubs? [00:20:34] Speaker A: Well, exactly. You know, and I mean, I think, I think back to childhood. Right. What? The series of books that came out when I was, you know, fourth through like high school was Harry Potter. That was like the, that was coming out and everyone was reading it. Right. So you, you had to read it or you didn't know what they were talking about. [00:20:57] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:20:58] Speaker A: You know, and I think, you know, Dogman, cat, kid. Like, those are kind of like that. [00:21:04] Speaker B: Right. Everybody's reading them. [00:21:06] Speaker A: So you need to know things of fire Series, too. [00:21:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:09] Speaker A: That's a big one. Kids are into is it's something that they're talking about. [00:21:18] Speaker B: Like, for the older kids, it was the diaries one. [00:21:25] Speaker A: Yeah. All I can think of right now is Diary of a Wimpy Kid. And that's not what we're talking about. [00:21:30] Speaker B: But it was a different one. Yeah, same thing. [00:21:33] Speaker A: Yeah, similar. I can't. I can't. I can't remember. I know our listeners are like, ah, it's this, but I can't. I can't recall it right now. I'm thinking of the wrong thing. But even something like Diaries of a Wimpy Pit, it was like graphic novel adjacent. [00:21:52] Speaker B: Correct. Exactly. And then for younger readers, curiosity, engagement, and the relevancy of a book choice that will impact a child's level of curiosity about words and concepts and engage with the text and the topics in the text, and it helps bring belief in themselves as readers, writers, and learners. [00:22:17] Speaker A: Yes. You know, I mean, how many times do we hear from our kids that we see like, I can't read. I don't read. I don't like it. I hate it. You know, but you get a different kind of book in their hand and all of a sudden they're truly reading. [00:22:42] Speaker B: Right. [00:22:43] Speaker A: You know, and firmly, firmly. I am a person who believes literacy is way more than just academics. And if I could get them to read anything at all. Right. You know, I can never force a child to love reading. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:08] Speaker A: It's unfortunately not my job. I can't do that for them. I wish all kids loved reading. That's just not. That's just not the way of things. But if they can make a connection to any text, that's huge. [00:23:29] Speaker B: Exactly. And then, like, when they're with us for a while and then they start going to the library and they start bringing us books, that's when you know you've got them. [00:23:38] Speaker A: Yes. [00:23:38] Speaker B: Because then they're like. They're like getting the enjoyment piece of it. [00:23:44] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. They're starting to identify as a reader and yay. [00:23:59] Speaker B: You know, I think here, groups of reading, back to the book club. Sometimes when teachers use that in a classroom, that can be very helpful because, you know, they talk about the story, there's questions and answers. You know, you're kind of diving a little deeper, and it's kind of something for them to just talk about. [00:24:26] Speaker A: It's definitely something I'm starting to see, too. I know that this year my son is in second grade and they do have a graphic novel unit, so they're going to Read graphic novels. [00:24:42] Speaker B: Oh, nice. [00:24:43] Speaker A: And they're gonna write graphic novels. Their own graphic novels. Aiden's already been working on his own. That's the other thing. [00:24:54] Speaker B: Too. [00:24:57] Speaker A: Often kids who read graphic novels, they try their hand at writing. [00:25:04] Speaker B: That's also good because writing's important. Huge. [00:25:07] Speaker A: It's so important. It's so, so important. He's very. He's working on his own little series that started over the summer with our OT student, Lauren. Yeah. His main character in some of the books is the villain, and some of the stories, he's the hero. I'm not sure it is. So what goes on in his brain? It's awesome, but I love it. It's a way to engage those kids who otherwise are kind of reluctant about reading and writing. [00:25:45] Speaker B: I agree. [00:25:46] Speaker A: And I can get him to kind of correct some of the things in his graphic novel that he's writing. [00:25:54] Speaker B: That makes sense. Yeah. [00:25:55] Speaker A: Whereas, like, other kinds of writing, he's like. Yeah. [00:26:02] Speaker B: And if you go back to one of our earlier podcasts, we go through a whole list of different books appropriate for by age. [00:26:09] Speaker A: Yes. [00:26:09] Speaker B: And the topics. Because you definitely want to make sure that, you know, even if it's a graphic novel, there's different ages for graphic novels. [00:26:19] Speaker A: Just like books, they are not created equal. [00:26:22] Speaker B: They're all different ages. [00:26:23] Speaker A: They are different ages. I will say the other. The other plug I will put in in the graphic novel, like, category is usually on the back blurb of the graphic novels. They're pretty explicit about saying, like young adults or, like, kid. It's just something I've noticed by picking a lot of them up in the library to just look at them, because they just. They have engaging cover art too. Right. So it's like I find myself just kind of drawn to them to just check out the really cool artwork involved. But they often are kind of explicit about, like, who is this main character? And if this main character is, like, a teenager, it's probably going to be a little bit more mature theme. And they're. They're usually going to kind of come out and say that if you ever have questions, Right. Like, ask your librarians, they will know. I am such a fan of the librarians. They know what they're talking about. [00:27:37] Speaker B: They really do. All right. So, Maggie, what's happening outside of dyslexia? [00:27:43] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. So what's happening outside of dyslexia right now is we finally are out of our extreme cold snap that we were having. Was not enjoying. I mean, this is southeast in Wisconsin. It is usually cold in December, but not the kind of cold that we were having this week. This past week was bitter cold that we're not really used to until, like end of January. It's been a really weird weather year. Like, our leaves did not drop until late. And then all of a sudden we got tons of snow on top of our leaves and then it froze. Spring is going to be a huge mess. [00:28:35] Speaker B: Yes, it will be. [00:28:36] Speaker A: Because. No, I mean, I don't know. I think we got our yard like 90% clean, but not all the way. Like, I don't think anybody did this. We're just. No, I. We're not alone. I don't know how you could have. [00:28:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:48] Speaker A: Because it just dropped and then it dropped and then snowed a lot. That's like. We got our snow early. [00:28:58] Speaker B: Yep. [00:28:59] Speaker A: And then today it's much nicer out, which I. I'm happy to not. I, I don't like the bitter colds. I don't like the bitter cold. I don't. I can handle living here most of the time. [00:29:13] Speaker B: Yeah. But with the wind chill, it was like negative 40 is what we're saying. It's not like it was. [00:29:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it was 30 degrees with like the polar vortex. Like, it was only a couple degrees warmer than like, we would have had school. [00:29:28] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:29] Speaker A: Like, it was that cold. Dangerous to go outdoors for any length of time, which I do not enjoy. Because my kids need to go outside. [00:29:43] Speaker B: I agree. Yeah. [00:29:46] Speaker A: So I'm happy that the temperatures are. Send them outdoors bundled up. Go. [00:29:54] Speaker B: Today it's like in the 30s, which for us is like. Ah. [00:29:58] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's a full like 50 degrees warmer than it was on Sunday. [00:30:04] Speaker B: It is. Yeah. [00:30:05] Speaker A: So, yeah. Yay. 30s is very tolerable weather for December. I fine with 30s. [00:30:13] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Yeah. What's going on with you, Nicole? Yeah. [00:30:25] Speaker B: Well, that's a good question. [00:30:27] Speaker A: What's not going on? [00:30:30] Speaker B: What is going on? Yeah, that's probably easier to answer. Yep. Well, I think, you know, we recently moved our heartland location to a bigger space in the same building. [00:30:44] Speaker A: We sure did. [00:30:45] Speaker B: We sure did. [00:30:46] Speaker A: See our previous episode. [00:30:47] Speaker B: Yes. And this has been really nice. [00:30:51] Speaker A: I totally agree. [00:30:54] Speaker B: And we just got our final, final decoration with our logo on it and it's super cool. So we're planning to hang it this week. You know, those things take a little bit extra time when they're bigger and, you know, you have to get them from. [00:31:11] Speaker A: Yep. [00:31:11] Speaker B: And this time of year, nothing is coming fast through the mail, let me tell ya. So it's just really nice to have it like that last piece done and be. [00:31:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I totally agree. I'm. We've been in this space now a couple of weeks, which feels good. Our students have used to it, had their little adjustment period. Most of them have been really excited. What is really funny is the feedback I'm getting from students is, wow, this place is huge. But when are you moving back upstairs? [00:31:52] Speaker B: What. [00:31:54] Speaker A: They miss never. They miss racing their pair. So a lot of our students would, like, race their parent up the stairs or try to beat the elevator. Because there's an elevator, right? So, like, their parent would ride the elevator and they would run up the stairs and try to scare them or beat them. So, yeah, that is the feedback. But what are you going back upstairs? Well, we're not. This is where we live now. Which also makes them laugh at me like, we live here. The literal. The literal kids. [00:32:29] Speaker B: I just love them. [00:32:30] Speaker A: Yes. Well, thank you, everybody. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or you would like us to discuss a topic. If you do like our show, please be sure to follow and then rate us on your favorite podcast player. That rating is really how we reach more listeners and then we get to help our families. Thank you, everybody. [00:32:53] Speaker B: Thank you.