Episode 98-Dyslexia and Following Directions

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie. [00:00:01] Speaker B: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children. [00:00:12] Speaker A: What dyslexia is, how it affects our [00:00:14] Speaker B: kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will also be covered in this podcast. Parents are not alone, and we want to give voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having. This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation. [00:00:34] Speaker A: Hi, everybody. Welcome to episode 98, dyslexia and coffee Podcast. Wow. Every once in a while, those numbers just really get me like. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Yeah, we have two more to 100. Wow. Oh, my goodness. [00:00:50] Speaker A: Oh, we should do something fun. [00:00:51] Speaker B: Sure. [00:00:52] Speaker A: Listeners, quick write it. We're going to start today's episode just like we have every single time, which is with the concept of the week. So the concept of the week is our opportunity as practitioners to kind of peel back the curtain a bit and let everyone into an intervention session. We like to teach about things that either we would teach directly to one of our students or to their family members. This week's concept of the week is auditory processing. Yet again, one of those concepts, I think is very misunderstood. So I'm going to walk you through. Auditory processing involves the complex neurological process of taking sound waves that are gathered by our ears and turning them into meaningful, usable information. So this is the process that allows us to understand speech, follow directions, recognize where sounds are coming from, all that good stuff. So the things that take the actual physical sound waves and makes meaning in our brain, sometimes this just gets confused with hearing. No, no, no. Hearing is just receiving the waves. [00:02:28] Speaker B: Correct. [00:02:28] Speaker A: Auditory processing is making meaningful information out of that. [00:02:33] Speaker B: Correct. So episode 98 is dyslexia and following directions. Okay. [00:02:44] Speaker A: This can come as a surprise to people. [00:02:47] Speaker B: It can. Yes. [00:02:49] Speaker A: Students with dyslexia often have difficulty following directions. [00:02:59] Speaker B: And there's more than one reason why. [00:03:01] Speaker A: Exactly. Right. It's not simple non compliance. [00:03:06] Speaker B: Correct. [00:03:07] Speaker A: Sometimes it looks like that and it's. [00:03:09] Speaker B: And it's not. [00:03:10] Speaker A: It's not. There's more that. There's more going on underneath. And we really, we want to talk about why. [00:03:20] Speaker B: So I guess the first reason that it can be a struggle is because of weak working memory. [00:03:26] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:26] Speaker B: So dyslexic brains have a much harder time temporarily storing and manipulating information in their short term memory. So when they get multiple tasks at once, they might forget later steps when trying to process the beginning at first step. [00:03:45] Speaker A: Yep. Or they might only remember the last step because it's the last thing they heard. [00:03:49] Speaker B: Correct. [00:03:49] Speaker A: They're not. Or the whole middle is missing. I mean there's like a whole lot of things that are happening with working memory. If our working memory is poor, we cannot make the transition to long term storage. [00:04:03] Speaker B: Correct. [00:04:03] Speaker A: It's not possible. [00:04:06] Speaker B: It's why repetition is so important with our students with dyslexia. Because we have to get it into that short term memory or working memory so it can get into long term memory so that they can recall it later. [00:04:19] Speaker A: Exactly. That dyslexic individuals often struggle with auditory processing. And this makes sense. Right. Almost all of our dyslexic learners, their primary deficit is that phonological awareness part. Guess what? That's auditory processing. Yes. So that's. It's incredibly important. And not only the auditory processing, but also sequencing. [00:04:52] Speaker B: Right? [00:04:52] Speaker A: Yes. [00:04:53] Speaker B: So not only can they not sometimes remember the verbal directions just because they're still trying to process the auditory input. [00:05:04] Speaker A: Yes. [00:05:04] Speaker B: They can't always sequence the steps in a logical order because that takes another [00:05:11] Speaker A: part of the brain too, you know. And our dyslexic learners, some sure could have a hearing impairment, but most don't. Correct. Most of the time they are hearing you perfectly fine. Nothing is wrong with their hearing. It's the processing. That's what's happening next. That's where we're breaking down. [00:05:38] Speaker B: Yes. And then also there's those corporations co occurring conditions that we have with dyslexia. Right? [00:05:44] Speaker A: Yes. [00:05:45] Speaker B: Adhd, which, that impacts executive functioning, attention span. And if your attention is not quite on par, then you miss instructions. [00:05:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. If we are not attending, we are not learning the end. [00:06:04] Speaker B: That is we cannot follow our direction. [00:06:05] Speaker A: We can't. We cannot. Just kind of a reminder for those playing along at home, dyslexia and ADHD. Right. If you are a person with ADHD, it is 50% likely that you also have dyslexia. So we're not talking about a small Venn diagram here. Right. The middle part of our Venn diagram is pretty big. [00:06:33] Speaker B: Correct. So how can we help our students follow directions a little bit better? Well, there's definitely some very good strategies out there. Right. So number one, do one step at a time, one step directions instead of multi step directions are going to be so much easier for them to follow. [00:06:56] Speaker A: Right. Especially at first. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:07:00] Speaker A: Give them one thing to do. Wait. Let them Finish it, then move on. [00:07:09] Speaker B: Yes. Make it visual. Have some visual aids. Maybe a written list or a gesture. So the student doesn't just have to rely on their auditory memory. They can also see. [00:07:26] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely right. We have, like, physical little plastic checklists at our house that have, like, little buttons that are check marks. And they can have them. It really helps. [00:07:39] Speaker B: It does help. [00:07:40] Speaker A: I use them. I use them for me. [00:07:43] Speaker B: What happened earlier today, Maggie, with me. Yeah. A timer went off. [00:07:47] Speaker A: A timer went off. [00:07:49] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:07:49] Speaker A: By the way, you do have to get your daughter. [00:07:53] Speaker B: We were about to start recording, and my alarm started going off, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. [00:07:58] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. [00:07:59] Speaker B: So there you go. Right. So, yes, you can also have a timer. [00:08:03] Speaker A: Yep. [00:08:06] Speaker B: Check for understanding. Did you hear me ask the child to repeat the directions back to you in their own words? Do you know how hard that is? [00:08:14] Speaker A: It's so difficult, you know, and, like, the. Not stopping at the Just. Did you hear me? Because. Yeah, they probably did. Just because they heard you does not mean they can process the information. [00:08:24] Speaker B: Correct. But if they can repeat it back to you, then, you know, they understood it. [00:08:30] Speaker A: Exactly. And it's another chance for them to hear it again. [00:08:35] Speaker B: Correct. And be very clear for, like, reference points. Right? [00:08:43] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:44] Speaker B: So, like, avoid abstract. Like, go left, go right. Actually give them a landmark. [00:08:50] Speaker A: Yep. [00:08:51] Speaker B: Like, turn by the red brick building or. [00:08:54] Speaker A: And then give them the direction to go in. Like, turn by the red brick building. Go to the library, you know, instead of left and right. Because our students with dyslexia struggle with left and right, left and right. It's very, very difficult for them. A lot of the students that I work with learn to wear a watch or a bracelet or something that really, like, almost never leaves their body. And that's often how they learn to recognize their left and right. [00:09:33] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely, because that is a very hard one. [00:09:37] Speaker A: It is really hard. [00:09:43] Speaker B: Also, I think repeating things is okay. Like, I mean, I think sometimes people think that that's not something. [00:09:54] Speaker A: Right. They should have heard me the first time. I'm like, no, no, they're not. [00:09:59] Speaker B: They're not going to. [00:10:00] Speaker A: They're not going to. And if you. And if you're having this frustration over and over and over again. Okay. There's a breakdown happening. [00:10:12] Speaker B: Correct. [00:10:13] Speaker A: Something else is going on. You know, when it is written instruction. Right. A lot of this has been talking about verbal instructions. [00:10:21] Speaker B: Correct. [00:10:22] Speaker A: When it's written instructions, having bullet points instead of just a block of text makes a huge difference. And by the way, not just for dyslexic brains. [00:10:36] Speaker B: Correct. [00:10:37] Speaker A: These are things that work universally and [00:10:42] Speaker B: also remember kind of where they're at with their reading. If you're gonna do text directions, because if it's above their reading level, they're not going to be able to understand the directions. [00:10:55] Speaker A: Right. At all. You know, it just makes me get so. It reminds me of. Nicole and I were just in a training this week. Right. For working with kids with dyslexia and reading difficulties in general. Right. And some of the example text that they were showing, even as, like, good examples, still had so many words on the pages that were not. Were not simple language. And even some of the posters that were shown as good examples of, like, anchor charts, which insider baseball are just kind of the things that we have on our wall that we can touch and look at and show students. Very simple things. Those still have so many words. [00:11:52] Speaker B: Yes. That are very, very difficult. [00:11:55] Speaker A: That are very, very difficult. Even with an older student and even with adults. Little infographics work very well. Pictures don't have to be babyish. They don't have to look. It's okay to use a visual type schedule with an older student and with adults. Just be mindful of what that looks like. [00:12:27] Speaker B: Correct. [00:12:29] Speaker A: They're really helpful and absolutely. Help me. You know, also, just this week, Right. We are discussing ways to help. We've hired an awful lot of people in the last year and a half. Our. Our staff has more than doubled in the last calendar year. And we were brainstorming ways just this week. As a staff, how can we help our new people understand what is expected and how do we get them up to speed and make them feel supported? And one of the ideas was like, what about just a checklist? And I was like, yes, that makes so much sense. Why, absolutely. I want one for me, you know? Yeah, yeah. [00:13:27] Speaker B: Because when we hire people, we have a checklist for that. [00:13:30] Speaker A: Right, Exactly. So it's like, what do we do when we start a new client? Right. Oh, okay. Having those very clear steps. It makes a big difference. Another example of something we're doing as a business is we have Scribe. Right. So an AI tool that takes screenshots of exactly what we're doing so that we can send it to people and it will take, you know, a physical screenshot. So helping people with dyslexia learn how to follow directions is just helping everybody's brain. [00:14:12] Speaker B: Just everybody. [00:14:13] Speaker A: It's just everybody. [00:14:14] Speaker B: It's just everybody. [00:14:15] Speaker A: I think it's kind of a shift for a lot of people when we're talking about helping Students with disabilities be better at tasks or just learn and grow. It's. It's like, oh, actually, all brains would benefit from this. All people would benefit this. It's just that it's critical and necessary for our students with disabilities. You know, just like structured literacy, what we do. Our main goal here. Right. Or our main service here is that structured literacy intervention. It's just very good teaching. It would be. It would benefit absolutely everybody to do this kind of intervention. It's just that it's critical for anybody who has a learning disability. [00:15:09] Speaker B: Correct? [00:15:10] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like the amount of repetition is what's different. [00:15:14] Speaker B: So, Maggie, I'm gonna put you on the spot. [00:15:16] Speaker A: Oh, boy. Here we go. [00:15:18] Speaker B: Why do you think that people are not aware that following directions is an issue with students with dyslexia? [00:15:29] Speaker A: I think because it's more abstract, the issues are more complex. Often when people think of following directions. Yes. As an educator, I am also thinking about race, written instructions. I am thinking about following directions on an exam. I am thinking about how to start a writing assignment. I'm thinking about things in a more broad context, but I think general public, General parents are thinking about following directions is like, I told my kid to get their coat on, their shoes on, and their backpack, and let's go. And they did none of that. [00:16:14] Speaker B: Yes. [00:16:14] Speaker A: They didn't follow my directions, you know, Or I told my kid to clean their room. I went in there, and they picked up one stuffy and said they were done. They're not following directions. One of the old teachers that I used to work with that I have the utmost respect for, he called it speaking in words versus like, thinking in pictures. Right. Often our human brains like to think in pictures, but we speak in words. Those things are different. So if the picture in my head is that I told my kid to clean his room, and I walk in there, and it's thick and span and everything's put away and the floor is shining. One, probably not gonna happen. That's probably not reality. Two, that's not what I said. Right. I said, go clean your room. His idea of a clean room and my idea of a clean room, totally different. They are not the same. They are not the same. And I think it's difficult. It is more complex than people think it is. And why people don't associate it with dyslexia. They're not thinking of dyslexia as an auditory or phonological processing disorder, which it is. They're thinking of dyslexia as only issues with printed words. So I think that's where the surprise element comes from. Comes from. [00:17:56] Speaker B: That makes a lot of sense. [00:17:57] Speaker A: Yeah. I think that's, it's, it's lack of education. Right. It's one of the reasons we're as vocal as we are. [00:18:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:10] Speaker B: So, Maggie, what's happening beyond dyslexia? [00:18:14] Speaker A: Oh, boy. You know, just a lot of things. We are in the middle of summer already and I kind of can't believe it is the middle of summer. Right. Like, we are staring down the 4th of July as we record this. The 4th of July is coming up and I. Yeah. Just kind of getting my head around all of that is a lot. [00:18:47] Speaker B: It is a lot. [00:18:48] Speaker A: It's a lot. What's going on with you, Nicole? [00:18:52] Speaker B: Well, so in six months, my lease is up in our car. So my husband has started shopping already. This is where two different people. I am more of the thought of, eh, whatever he's needs to, like. I don't know why we're talking about it already. I really don't want to talk about it anymore. But it is something that he's very passionate about and so we have to take in many days. Looking at cars. I have to tell you, I don't like buying cars. It's not my favorite thing to do in the world. And I don't honestly understand half the things that happen with my car other than it needs to drive forward. [00:19:51] Speaker A: Like, there are just things that, like. Okay, there's like two categories of things. Things I don't know about, but, like, I will be interested to learn. I'm like, oh, yeah, tell me more. Yeah, that is not. It's not. That does not live in that category. [00:20:06] Speaker B: It does not. It doesn't. [00:20:08] Speaker A: I don't. [00:20:09] Speaker B: The type of engine. Yeah, okay. It's an engine. It makes it run right. That's all I care about. I need to get from A to [00:20:16] Speaker A: B to C. Yeah, don't. Just don't. Don't care. [00:20:21] Speaker B: I just want a safe car. That's my only, like, thing, is the rating on it. And if I could put all my stuff and my kids in there. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:30] Speaker B: Those are the two things I need to know. So it's been a kind of an interesting time because I know we're going to be doing this for the next six months because that's how long before the lease is over. [00:20:43] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:20:44] Speaker B: My cognitive load is going down because of it. Yeah. [00:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Because it's so overwhelming and it just. I also hate the game and the like. [00:20:55] Speaker B: Yes. [00:20:55] Speaker A: Negotiation. I don't Some people really get, like, oh, they, like, love it. Like, they love the, like, thrill of the hunt. And I love to negotiate. And, like, isn't this fun? And I'm like, no, thank you. I like to have a price, and then I pay that price. Like, I don't want to haggle. That's dumb. And I don't want to. Yeah, not about a car. I just don't. No, thank you. I don't want to do that. [00:21:20] Speaker B: And they're all calling me and asking me. So then I'm just like, okay, here's my husband's number. I'm done. I can't. [00:21:30] Speaker A: My incapacity for making any more decisions is done. I don't want to. [00:21:35] Speaker B: I don't want. [00:21:36] Speaker A: I don't want to. Please. [00:21:37] Speaker B: Especially knowing that I don't. I'm not supposed to make it right now, right? [00:21:41] Speaker A: We got six months, and that's a long time. It is different in six months, as we well know. Things can be drastically different in six months. In six months. [00:21:52] Speaker B: So there's that. [00:21:53] Speaker A: Yuck. So, listeners, if you have any good ideas, email Nicole's husband. Yes, email Nicole. She doesn't care about the car. She's not looking for recommendations. Well, thank you, everybody, for the listening. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or you would like us to discuss a topic. If you do like our show, please be sure to follow us and give us a rating on your favorite podcast players. Those ratings is how we reach more listeners, and then we get to help more families. Thank you, everybody. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Thank you.