Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children.
What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will also be covered in this podcast. Parents are not alone, and we want to give voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having.
This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: All right. Hi, everybody.
Welcome to episode 90. That's a nine and a zero.
It's a lot of episodes. Yes, nine, zero. Episode 90 of Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're going to start today's episode like we do every. Every single week with the concept of the week. So the concept of the week is our opportunity as practitioners to kind of peel back that curtain a little bit and let everyone into an intervention session. We like to cover topics that either we would teach directly to one of our students or things that we would teach their parents or family members about.
So today's concept of the week is time blindness, otherwise known as sequential sequencing issues.
This is really common. It's a really common challenge for people with dyslexia as well as other neurodiversity, where individuals have difficulty managing time and also understanding sequences. They have trouble understanding the days of the week. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, even, like the months of the year, understanding the seasons of the year can even be difficult.
They can also have trouble remembering the order of certain events. So when they're kind of trying to recall something that happened, they're trying to tell a story outside of its sequential order, which can cause a lot of issues with other people trying to understand what that person is saying.
And also it happens in while they read, too. So when they read a story, they can have a lot of difficulty putting that story back together in a logical order. So that is our concept of the week this week.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: All right, well, welcome to episode 90. We have a wonderful guest today. Her name is Lisa Richter.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: Richard.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: Richard. Thank you.
[00:02:37] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Lisa is the creator of the Clarity, Confidence, Courage Journey map, which is designed to move learners and their families from confusion to empowered advocacy. She's also the mom of two neurodivergent sons.
She also has a background as an executive board chair for, by, with, and for autistic adults. She's an advocacy chair for the Mandela School and and an advocacy board member for Parents Alignments for Inclusion.
She has a firsthand view of what really makes a support team effective, from the boardroom to the IEP meetings.
With her Advanced Advocate certificate and years of direct parent collaborations, she helps identify what is missing in the support process and brings clarity when things feel a little bit muddled.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: Welcome, Lisa. We're so excited to have you with us.
I always think it's kind of fun to read those bios.
So accomplished.
We're really, really happy to have you on with us today.
We got a chance to kind of chat with Lisa to get to know her a little bit before we add her on. And I think you're just going to bring such a good perspective to our listeners, and we're just, we're happy to have you here.
So welcome. Lisa, I want to give you a chance a little bit to kind of introduce yourself to the listeners.
So could you just tell us like a little bit about yourself?
[00:04:12] Speaker C: Absolutely. Thank you.
I always, I listen to the intros and depending on the audience, sometimes I'll switch it up a little bit and I notice how much of a mouthful it seems to be. So thanks for going along with that.
So I too, am neurodivergent, as you had said. I'm also a mom, like the two of you.
And I founded my business, I initially founded it as Bloom Special Education Advocacy after years and years of navigating the world of neurodiverse learning with my oldest. So I've only known motherhood as in neurodivergent mom. And that is also neurodivergent, unknowingly growing up. So, but my, so my, my consultancy now is called Journey to Bloom. And the reason it's called that versus Bloom Special Education Advocacy. I think we talked about this a little bit is because when I first founded it, and I would say I was an advocate, I would get like the X in front of people, like, oh, back off, you know, and special education, oh, it's a box. And as time went on and I learned more about me and I learned more about each of my individual children's journeys. And what worked for one doesn't work for the other.
What works for me doesn't work for my youngest. And we Both are diagnosed ADHD. We're both diagnosed as calculia.
He's got eight different learning differences.
So all the Ds that you were talking about, and we both have executive functioning struggles. So my, my background being very eclectic, from elite level gymnastics to coaching, to sales and leadership and HR development, and then tying in all the neurodivergent learnings that I've done and the lived experiences and the certifications I've gotten over time, including executive functioning, because I realized talking about, like, time blindness, blindness and time management, man, did I struggle with that. And I don't retain information unless I take notes. So if anybody's watching a recording of this, I was copiously taking notes as we were talking.
So I tying back into what you all said as the theme. When people learn about who I am, having that support team in place when my oldest was going through all the things trying to get diagnosed, and we were trying to get him diagnosed with what was going on, because diagnoses inform to me. They don't define. But without that information, we can't work with people like the two of you and navigate the world. That is not my expertise. I'm not an interventionist. I am not a psychologist, psychiatrist. When I work with clients, I call myself a neurodiversity consultant or a neurodivergent success partner.
One resonates better with one, one resonates better with the other. I am both of those, depending on how I show up or how people want me to show up.
But managing time, that relationship with parents, with students, with people in life, it's really difficult. As you were talking, I was writing down three specific things.
The sequential understanding piece, the order of events, and whether it's reading what I was thinking about my younger son. The order of operations. So the discomfort, order of operations, and even test taking.
So right when. When you're mixing them up. I just had a conversation with my younger son's teacher because I work on campus, as well as their neurodiversity consultant, the Mondelez School. You had mentioned that.
And she's like, I know he understands all these concepts, but when we did the test, he got about half of it right. I don't want to ding him for the assessment because I know he understands conceptually how to do it and how to apply it.
And so he's one of those kids that when you do a standardized test, no joke, he was under 10 percentile.
But when you took away the constraints of how a typical brain would assess or test and you took away the time constraint, he jumped up above 75%.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:50] Speaker C: On the same content. I see Nicole say, on the same content.
So that is where I live. I live in that messy middle where things don't make any sense to so many people, but they make sense to Me. And what doesn't make sense, I then lean into support teams such as the two of you to help clients and sometimes even myself, still make it make sense so that I can help them navigate the neurodiverse learning journey.
Yeah.
[00:09:21] Speaker A: I mean, I really. I even wrote it down. I really agree. Right.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: The.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: Those diagnoses, they are important because they give us information about a student. Right. In our case, it's students because we work with students, but just people.
[00:09:37] Speaker C: Right.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: But they're not. They're not a definition of a person.
And we say all the time, if you've met one person with dyslexia, that's nice. You've met one person with dyslexia, and you insert diagnosis here. Right. I mean, them adhd.
What we're getting at is that gives us some clues as to how to work with that student, but that does absolutely not give us all the pieces we need.
One of the things that we. We both do is go in and, you know, we do go in as advocates. And I really like what you have to say about that too. Right. That the word advocate sometimes can kind of instill this, like, fear, like, oh, my gosh, that person's here to find everything that I'm doing wrong. And it really couldn't be more opposite. That is not how we approach advocacy either.
So I really like how you're talking about being a success partner, a team member.
You know, I will go to the mat all day, every day that the IEP team needs to be a team. And that means that people's perspectives have to be listened to. And we have to always remember that who we are here for is that individual. Right. That's the first thing on there.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: IEP stands for Individualized Education Program.
We have to keep that individual in mind.
And if we have egos, we're not doing that. I mean, automatically. That's not what's happening.
So I just really feel like we connected so well on that.
And I think it's so important that our listeners hear it from more than just Nicole and I.
Right. They've heard that enough from us.
[00:11:32] Speaker B: And I think it's also important for, like, I know that you've talked to us before about this, that you're not there to talk for the parent.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: That's not your job. Your job is to be the partner and not to talk for them. It's to help them navigate the whole meeting and help everybody communicate well.
Which, I mean, we run in that too. Right. Where people ask us to just talk for them and that's not really what an advocate should do.
[00:12:01] Speaker A: Right. And I. So you have a one pager that's called the moose on the IEP table. Lisa, first of all, I just think that's so funny. I love the imagery of a moose.
You're on the east coast as well, so I'm sure that resonates with people, which I think is awesome. Can you tell me a little bit about that title? What made you call it the Moose on the. On the Table?
[00:12:28] Speaker C: Yeah, and it's not just the IEP table, it's the moose on any table.
And I put it into context.
My claim is that neurodiversity is the prism lighting the table.
So that might be the elephant in the room, but the moose on the table is when we take that concept and we choose to have conversation around it, we truly are willing to come together as a team and unpack those elephants that are in the room that someone might name, they might tame, but then they put it under the rug, and then we never come to solution, resolution, or clarity.
And so, Nicole, you had made a comment that I don't talk for people, but I just want to. I just want to clarify because I am.
I work with people, not for them.
And so if a client says to me, I am so emotional right now that I want you to read that impact statement for me, because I don't know how I'm going to react, I will do that for them.
So I truly meet the person where they are, and then I will make sure that their voice is heard directly from them.
Sometimes even the school team will say, well, I want to hear from the parent.
But I know that the parent wants me to state it because there's a certain way they're trying to articulate it and they're being bulldozed or railroaded by the school team. And this just happened the other day.
And then I said, okay, now you can go ahead and say something. And the person on the other end, I could see their face. They were not happy that I jumped in and shared, but I did it because the parent wanted me to. I prep and plan with my parents ahead of time.
Sometimes I say almost nothing. And usually that's once the train, the trainer philosophy. We talked about that a little bit. What I know they've gotten with my journey map. When they've gotten clear, we'll talk about parents here. Right? Because that's the conversation.
When parents, taking those clues that we were talking about a little while ago, then you can become clear on where you are and what you know, what you don't know, and what you don't know, you don't know. So talking about the moose on the table. Right, Those three things.
So then once you get clear on that, how do you gain confidence to ask the questions that are going to engage conversation? So that when we are sitting in a room collectively, I'm going to say the two of you too, because I know you go into the classroom, into the classrooms, and into the IEP table room.
And we are there because the parents asked us to be there.
I believe I am there to be in collaboration with the school, so I'm wrapping my arms around the whole team, but I'm really there for that learner.
However, if a parent has asked me to come in and it's one of the first couple of meetings, they've likely asked me to come in because they've tried to use their own voice directly, and it's being met with deaf ears. It's being met with combativeness, defiance, misunderstandings, or whatever it is. So then I model it. So sometimes I am speaking on behalf of them, using their words. So I just want to say, like, you're right, I agree I shouldn't speak for them, but I do speak on their behalf with their language when it makes sense. I don't do that with all clients. Some clients, I say, you have to be the one to say it because how strongly you said it to me, I. And then I can empower their voice to be heard. So I try to balance the scales in that. And some of that comes from having been a certified trainer, being in HR leadership, being in sales leadership, being in transformation coaching, mindfulness, mindset work. So I can't. I go. I'm going like this because everyone's different. Right. I just realized my hands are moving.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: I mean, me too.
Make me be quiet. I have to, like.
But I think what I'm hearing you say and what resonates so much with our philosophy here, too, is that we don't approach really any situation the exact same way, because all kids are different, family systems are different, school systems are different.
And that can change year to year. I mean, that can. That can change semester to semester. All of these elements are different every time.
You know, I have the real privilege of some of the students that I see here. I also do come in and advocate on their IEP teams. And I've been able to do this for a while and have kind of sequential years. Right. So kind of that first year was a little bit more me talking quite a Bit Right. And me doing a lot of educating of the parents alongside their student as we go through. And now I just attended one of my students IEPs who I, I worked with her for, oh my goodness, six years and I just attended her IEP this. So the fifth.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Fourth.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: The fifth time. And I really didn't, I didn't physically. Right. I didn't speak much.
And now she is able to write that student, that young lady who is going to be in a freshman in high school next year, which could make me cry. But.
But I'll spare the listeners that, you know, she.
Because she's had it modeled because we've worked together in that way for as long as we have.
Every single IEP meeting for her has been quite different. The people has been different.
And what her parents are able to articulate and what she is now able to articulate for herself.
You know, it's a, it's a real privilege. It's a real privilege to, to do what we do.
I have a story about that.
[00:18:47] Speaker C: Do you mind if I share?
[00:18:48] Speaker A: Please. Yeah.
[00:18:49] Speaker C: Okay. So this is going to be like kind of a theme on, I guess on some of these podcasts because I just shared this the other day.
Cool story. And it reminds me of what you were saying. So I had a family, I've had lots of families. But this particular family, mom, everyone was a nonbeliever that this child could stay on diplomatrack and actually accomplish things. So mom ended up bringing me in at the end of third grade because she knew it was going to be a fight. And so we went through the processes, like you were just describing of.
I like what you said. Educating alongside. Because that's exactly it. That's a great phrase. So that's what I was doing. I was modeling and educating alongside. And as the years went on, data wise, she was like, I've never seen anybody collect data the way that she did and bring it together. It was just so beautiful. But there was so much emotion attached to it. That's why that team, we talked about a support team at the beginning. Having that team is so critical because each plays a part. And sometimes the part I play is emotional support and other times, let's come back. Sometimes it's the mediator. Even with the schools, like, help me make sure that the family understands because I'll have a banter sometimes with the school team asking for clarity and then the parent will be sitting there like Jared Headlights. So I. That's a piece that I know from us talking together. I feel like you educate on as well. And even more clearly note that now for this particular family, I went in, I did observations with the school team over the course of a couple of years, did lots of observations, talked to them in all the meetings, fast forward. We did end up getting that person to a non public placement. We did end up getting them to keep the child on diplomatrack.
She is now, I believe 8th grade also.
So I've been going all the meetings in the first two years. I did go to the IEP meetings at the non public school as well.
And then we have a case manager from our central office team that also supports from that side. But there have been a lot I remember like friction with the, with the public school. So mom had me there, you know, and somewhat just as, you know, a support because she was on it. Like I barely. She would ask me, do you have anything to say? And usually by that point I'm like, not really. You know, you get it.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:19] Speaker C: The highlight of it all was I reached out to her the other day because I was just, I think it was Friday. I was just cleaning up some older IEPs and moving things out that I didn't need anymore. And I was like, hey, did you, did that IEP meeting ever get scheduled? I knew we were behind because we're lots of snow here. I mean, you guys get a lot of snow, but here in Maryland we had a ton of snow this year.
So she was like, oh my gosh. They called me, they said, can we do it in two days? I didn't want to bother you. I had so many things going on and part of me was like, oh man, I missed the meeting. And. But then when she told me what happened, I was sad I missed it, but I was so happy to hear how it went. She's like, the meeting went spectacular. And not only did it go well, her daughter was in the meeting for the first time, talked about what she wanted to do for some internships, for job shadowing, for like what she wanted things to look like.
And I just got tears in my eyes and I haven't even talked to her. I just did this through chat with her and I was like, oh my gosh, I am so proud of you and I'm so proud of Joce. It was incredible, incredible to hear where she was in third grade versus where she is today, thriving in math, still struggling in reading. But we knew that was a bigger struggle for her. But through those years, we went through so many things together.
She became a dear friend. She was at my younger son's Bar mitzvah.
So. But, you know, we. Life gets busy. My point of all of it is I forged this relationship that was professional but also personal and most importantly, empowered this mom and her daughter to find the clarity, confidence, and courage to go out and do it on her own. And now they get to do it and pay it forward, and she gets to thrive because her mom trusted in it and because her mom trusted me to have me join the team and knew that she didn't have to do it alone.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: I mean, that's amazing. That's exactly it, right? I mean, I. I really could cry at that story, Lisa, because that is.
That's essentially what you want to happen. What we want to happen. That's exactly.
I mean, my training and background is special education, and my real heart is with high school transitions. And so what do I want to see for all of those kids? Right? I want to see, okay, you got the wings. It's you. It's time. It's time to fly.
And that's my job. Right. I mean, the kind of the old adage, and I mean, teaching in general, but especially in special ed, is like, well, I'm trying to teach myself out of a job. Like, my job is that one day you won't need me. And it's the joke with the students I see here is like, it's the best and the worst part of this job, of what I'm trying to do. And I feel like it's. It's motherhood, too, right?
Yeah. You know, it's motherhood, too. It's. Well, okay, I. I love you so much, but you're not living in my basement all this time. Okay.
One day you will be as independent as is. As is possible.
[00:24:39] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:24:39] Speaker A: For you. And that is a matter of degree.
And I think, you know, that's what we're always trying to communicate with parents, to students, to school professionals, that, yes, we're looking for the maximum that this person.
Right. Can do, which is probably a lot more than we all actually think.
But I just.
I do. I love that story, and I just. I think it really aligns, and I think our listeners will really connect with that, because a lot of the students that we have here and a lot of the parents that we work with, they're still in that phase of, oh, my gosh, I don't even know what to do with this information.
You know, men, we do assess and diagnose dyslexia here, and a lot of our students are kind of in that phase of, okay, I don't even, I don't even know what to do with that.
So to go from I don't even know what to do with that to having students advocate for their own self and really be able to communicate what they need and want, not only just in school. And I think that's something that we connect on to, Lisa, that, yes, we deal with a lot of schools.
You know, we deal with a lot of schools, we deal with a lot of school based academic issues, but that is not even close to what the whole child is about and.
[00:26:18] Speaker B: Right.
Because there's a whole life outside of school.
[00:26:22] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: And I have to be ready for the another part too.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: Well, exactly that.
[00:26:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:29] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I just.
We think you're great.
We're just really happy that you were able to share all of that expertise with our listeners.
We like to end our episodes with what's going on outside of dyslexia. So that's kind of speak for like our real people lives.
So if you're game for it, Lisa, what's been going on outside of, I guess neurodiversity, probably
[00:27:00] Speaker C: my younger son would say, well, this is your life and my life is my business and my business is my life. And I, I feel like the two of you are in a similar. Right. A similar position.
What's been going on? Well, my oldest decided to come home last weekend. He's in college as a freshman, so that was fun.
Laundry. Laundry and.
All the life things. And you know, my, my youngest decided he wanted to start running track, so I found and grovel to let somebody let me into a track program four weeks after it started and they did, thankfully, and he's loving it.
So now we're dabbling in that. And yeah, just, just life juggles. There's so much going on. You guys run a business. I run a business, but I just enjoying life and meeting people like you. It's just, I'm doing a lot of podcast guesting. I sometimes say I'm a serial podcast guest because it's just so much fun to engage and meet with people, people like you. But, you know, just outside of here, outside of work, being a mom and a wife and trying to put myself first and yeah, just. Can I say something about what we just wrapped up on? Yes.
Ask for help.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: That's.
[00:28:28] Speaker C: That's something that, you know, I. What do we do with that info? What do I do outside of here? I do something I didn't do for a really long time, which is if I need help or support, I always ask for it now. Because life is a lot easier with others than it is.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: That is very true.
[00:28:47] Speaker A: I think that's. That's so. That's so important. And I think that is like life as a mom. And I think that's why it's so hard. So many of us struggle to actually do the thing, which is ask for help.
[00:29:05] Speaker B: And I agree.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I know.
[00:29:07] Speaker B: And to know who to ask for help too. Sometimes that's part of the.
[00:29:11] Speaker A: Sometimes that's part of it too.
[00:29:12] Speaker C: It's like, oh, I don't know who
[00:29:14] Speaker B: to ask for this.
[00:29:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: You know, but start with somebody. Right? Start with somebody. If. If it's not the right person, we can we ask for help more?
Definitely. Yeah. I totally. I totally agree. Even though I feel like it's a constant reminder in. Right.
Personal and professional life that. Yeah, me too.
[00:29:36] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:29:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
And that's like. That's why I would say that's like a theme right outside of here, asking for help is. It is a theme because.
[00:29:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's so true. It is so true.
[00:29:49] Speaker C: As a parent is.
Life as a parent is tough. Life as a neurodivergent, let alone two neurodivergent children is really tough.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: It is. Yes, it is.
[00:30:00] Speaker B: And there's no handbook for it.
[00:30:02] Speaker A: There is no handbook.
And if we wrote one, it would only work for one kid.
[00:30:06] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:30:07] Speaker C: It wouldn't work for everybody.
[00:30:08] Speaker A: Work for one day, maybe.
Because that's just not how human brains work. It's just not right. I wish it was exactly. Kind of. I don't wish it was. That would be very boring, actually.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: I think it would be too.
[00:30:25] Speaker C: Are you sure? I think you like the. Some of the. Not. Not all the chaos, but some of
[00:30:29] Speaker A: the chaos of the chaos. I. I need some of the chaos. I don't know what that says about me.
Yeah. What's been going on with you, Nicole?
[00:30:42] Speaker B: Well, kind of lots of things related to mom and busyness and children.
Yeah. Our son is starting b baseball, and my husband was like, oh, I volunteered to be the assistant coach. And I'm like, how did that happen?
And she's like, well, I thought they would ask for me to bring some snacks, but apparently when I said I would help, they decided I'd be the assistant coach. Oh, no.
[00:31:07] Speaker A: They heard Flesh Fresh.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: And I'm like, and you're gonna fit that in with it? Between what therapy and what other that
[00:31:16] Speaker C: are run by parents. I live that life too. It's just gotta keep on going. So be careful what you volunteer for
[00:31:23] Speaker B: all of the things I was like, oh, that's great. We can now we get to try to figure out that in our really
[00:31:31] Speaker A: fun schedule, all while figuring out literal, actual tornadoes.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: We had. I think this is probably an outdated count, but we had 23 tornadoes across the state of Wisconsin last month or last week, which is where both Nicole and I are based.
[00:31:47] Speaker B: And they said that that's as many as we had all of last year.
[00:31:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: For the whole summer.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Yeah. So.
[00:31:55] Speaker B: So we got them in a week.
[00:31:56] Speaker A: Got them in a week. Yeah. So it was a very eventful week. And we are definitely. I am thankful that our house is fine.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: My people are. Are fine.
[00:32:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:32:11] Speaker A: But, yeah, definitely, we now get to navigate insurance claims.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: And so that's what's happening beyond dyslexia.
[00:32:21] Speaker A: Flooded literally fl.
Everywhere. They had to weight down bridges in our.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:27] Speaker A: In a town near here because they were afraid of the actual bridge deck floating down.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Yeah. They use the snow removal trucks and they put them on the bridge. And so I'm like, well, that's another way to use them in the summer.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: Yep.
There we go.
Yeah, it's been.
It's been a little bit wild.
Yeah. Literal, actual tornadoes. Usually I talk about tornadoes figuratively, but not this week.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: No, it was actually real ones.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: Well, thank you so much, everybody. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or you would like us to discuss a topic.
If you do like our show, be sure to follow and then give us a rating on your favorite podcast player. That's really how we reach more listeners and we get to have help more families. Thank you, everybody.
[00:33:23] Speaker B: Thank you. And thank you, Lisa, for joining us today.
[00:33:26] Speaker C: Thank you for having me.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: 90.
[00:33:27] Speaker C: That's when I graduated high school. So it's a fun number.
[00:33:30] Speaker A: That's a fun number.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: That is a fun number.
[00:33:33] Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you.
