Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: Hi, I'm Nicole, and welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee podcast. We are so happy you could join us. We are both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children, what dyslexia is, how it affects our kids. Strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will also be covered in the podcast. Parents are not alone, and we want to give a voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having. This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school and the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation.
[00:00:36] Speaker A: All right. Welcome to episode four of DAC Dyslexia and Coffee podcast. I'm so excited it's episode four.
We like to start our episodes with the concept of the week. So, concept of the week is our opportunity as the practitioners to kind of peel back the curtain a little bit and introduce topics that we are teaching about in intervention. So we're going to talk about what is a phoneme today, a phoneme is the smallest unit of sound in any given language.
So, for example, if we have the word cat.
Cat breaks down into three phonemes. C a t.
Cat.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: Sorry.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Cat. Oh, yes. Must segment, must blend.
Thank you for calling me on that.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: We do this with all of our students, every lesson.
Yes. So our topic this week, as we discussed in our last episode, how to talk with the school staff about dyslexia. This week we're going to talk about what the difference between an accommodation and a modification is. We're going to talk about some examples of both that can assist students with dyslexia.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So these two terms are sometimes used interchangeably, but in fact, they are two different things. So we'll start with some definitions.
Accommodations are generally a change that can be made to the environment that allows a student to kind of work around their disability, so to speak.
These do not require any changes to the curriculum.
On the opposite side of that are modifications. So modifications, on the other hand, have more to do with the instruction or the assessment.
These are changes to what is being taught or what is being expected of a student in terms of assessment.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: Even though these are two terms that are used interchangeably, it's important to understand the difference between them. One of the most important things to keep in mind is a student has a 504 plan at school. This generally means they have accommodations, but not modifications.
So we will discuss the difference between an individualized education plan IP and a 504 plan. In a later episode. But this is one of the important distinctions between them.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: Yes.
Yeah. So a question we get asked a lot is how do we decide on accommodations and modifications?
It's a really important step, and it really does have direct implications for a student learning. So this really should be done with great care and consideration for individual learners.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Because, like we said before, no two people with dyslexia are exactly the same, and therefore, no two people with dyslexia should be getting the exact same support.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: Exactly.
Where's the drum?
[00:04:24] Speaker B: If the student has an IEP, then the whole team decides regarding what support should be in place and for how long.
Basically, the purpose of all these supports is to allow the student access to the curriculum as if they did not have their disability.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: Yes.
As a reminder, what is fair is not always equal, and what is equal is not always fair.
[00:04:54] Speaker B: True.
I do have a question for you because I'm not sure.
Sometimes I get hazy with the accommodation and modification.
[00:05:02] Speaker A: Ha.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: So my son is getting.
I don't know if it's in a modification or accommodation. So I'm gonna ask you.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: Okay. All right.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: So, for his homework, he does not complete a full page like the rest of his class because his hand cannot physically do the writing piece.
So they give him less number of answers to do so that he doesn't fatigue.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: Yes. That is a very common modification.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:39] Speaker A: Because we are expecting a different output from him. So it's based on his disability and the physical needs happening for him. We're expecting a different outcome from him, which is a reduction in the number of whatever he's doing, math or whatever it is.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: That's good to know.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
Okay, good.
So another burning question. Right. So what are some common accommodations for people with dyslexia?
What we're going to share with you today is a good place to start. Start. So we're not saying that everything we talk about should be in your child's IEP or 504 plan. We're saying these are some common accommodations that work or work with some students with dyslexia.
I'm going to take a lot of what we say today from the International Dyslexia association.
They have their accommodations broken down into four main categories, which I think really helps talk us to talk about them. I think it's a good way to break it down. So the four main categories, they say, are presentation, response, setting, and time and scheduling. So we're going to go into what in the heck and stuff does that mean?
[00:07:14] Speaker B: So, presentation accommodations allow the student access to instructional materials in ways that do not require them to read standard print. So they might be presented in a standard visual format, or some things may be verbal or repetition of instructions.
They might have a text that has an audio format.
Some other things might be larger. Print fewer items per page.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: Yeah. So the same number of items, just fewer on one page. So it's not as overwhelming.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: Yep.
Visual prompts are cues, like maybe an arrow pointing to where to start to write on a page of highlighted text. That's a very common one.
Alternate answer sheets. So it's not all just one right in front of you. Overwhelming area. It might be broken up a little bit different depending on the student need given information in songs or poems.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: Yeah. So sometimes it's like even pulling up a YouTube video with the same. Right. We're talking about the same information.
We're giving it in a different way. Some of our students with dyslexia, they have a real musical brain. They can understand the complexities of that, and it helps. It helps even them to sing out their answers. Sometimes I pick kids like that.
They're really fun to work with because I do not share that skill at all. You don't want me singing to your kid. You do nothing.
My kids don't want me singing to them either.
So on the assessment side, then, so all of those presentations were kind of like, okay, how are we delivering information to our students? And now how are we assessing what they know? So some presentation accommodations on the assessment side could be a use of a calculator if we're not actually concerned with the math facts itself.
If we are, that becomes a modification. We'll get to that later.
Speech to text software, allowing a student to speak into their device and type it out that way, versus having a handwriter type something, any electronic dictionary being available. If we're not expecting, if we are not specifically assessing spelling at this time, then allowing them use of a dictionary or any other kind of spell check or grammar check. I've also sent students with some common spelling patterns that they can kind of keep tucked into their binder or have available to them in some capacity. So it is an accommodation so long as we are not specifically testing that skill.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: That makes sense.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
So another category of accommodations is response. So these accommodations allow students alternatives for the completion of the assignment. So this is what the student is doing.
Students may be permitted to demonstrate their knowledge and skills in a different way or to solve or organize their work using an electronic device or an organizer.
They might be able to mark answers in a textbook instead of on a separate answer sheet, especially those scantron tests.
Going back and forth between two pages and focusing on those tiny little bubbles can be extremely visually fatiguing.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: That was hard for me.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: Even as a typical learner.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't get me started on scan trends. We'll be here for an hour.
Dislike a lot.
That is a personal story. For a different time, a student might be able to dictate their answers to someone who could write them down for them or record oral responses on an audio recorder.
You know, point to response choices. I've had students with that accommodation before where even stopping what they're doing and, like, looking up and all those things, like if that breaks their concentration, being able to point to their answers versus even having to say them out loud or typing responses when maybe handwriting is expected, as long as we're not assessing the handwriting. So as long as we're not assessing that specific skill, allowing them to demonstrate their knowledge in a different way is still an accommodation.
[00:13:03] Speaker B: So settings can be part of accommodations, like changing in location of where the test is taken or the assignment is given.
And there could be different conditions in those settings. So they could be individual or small group.
They can be in a reduced visual or auditory distraction area. So maybe they have a separate desk or location in the classroom, or maybe they're taken to a private office to do the test.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I have a lot of students who really benefit from that, even being able to quietly read something to themselves.
Sometimes we have students who experience some kind of embarrassment.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: We.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: The technique we teach our students to do to decode is tap out each individual sound.
You know, not forever, but when they're really first starting to do that work, sometimes they're feeling really embarrassed in front of their peers and just allowing them to do that off by themselves somewhere, not all the way alone, but even allowing them that space to be able to do the things they need to do free from distractions.
That can be a really big one.
Yeah. And even a change in seating, whether it be like, the type of chair they're sitting on or the arrangement itself, being able to face front with the teacher for whole group lessons versus, like, a block of tables and a small group work.
I do think it's kind of interesting what's happening in schools right now.
I'm seeing a lot more rows of desks again, kind of like the way traditional way we used to think of.
We got away from that in schools big time for a while. Kind of in favor of the small group table.
Cause a lot of problems.
It's good for some things, not all things.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: There can also be timing or scheduling accommodations. So the length of time allowed to take a test or do a project or an assignment or maybe the way the time is organized. So maybe youre allowed a break.
Our students use their brain and they get really tired. So without that break, they might not be able to complete the full test. Sometimes flexible scheduling. So maybe they break up the different into different sessions versus just doing one big, long, big test.
Or maybe they just have extended time because they need to reread things over and over again to understand them. Or maybe they need to just really, their processing might be a little slower, so then they need that extra time to kind of get through all the questions.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Frequent breaks is another one. We actually just did talk about that already. Sorry, I changing the order of tasks, too.
Mileage may vary on this one. Some kids do a lot better if they're getting the least desirable thing over and done right away.
And some kids do better with the opposite, where you allow them to do their best subject first or the best part of it first and then build up to the harder part. It, it really depends on the student here.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: That's interesting. Do you see that? Does that increase confidence then when they have, yeah, that block a time change.
[00:17:13] Speaker A: I definitely have seen that work really well for students.
Most often I've seen this kind of on a standardized testing situation where, my gosh, I'm dreading the math. I'm dreading the math. And for some students, getting that math over and done is like, okay, that happened already. Now I can focus on my next thing. And for some students, it's like they need to feel successful before they get to like the hard thing. I mean, I even do that kind of in our session sometimes I have certain students that kind of, in a typical block, my typical lesson plan, I would build up to fluency practice or connected text practice. But for some students, it's like they're dreading it and I can just watch them. They're like watching the clock and watching the clock and kind of trying to fake me out. Like if I just stall for time, we're not going to get to that part of the lesson that I really don't like.
For some students, it's fun spelling. For a lot of them, it's spelling, and I might change that up on them sometimes and put what we do in a session in a different order. And for some students that helps a lot.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: So then now we're going to switch gears and talk about modifications. So modifications for students with dyslexia.
As a reminder, modifications change what is being taught or expected of the student. So this does, in fact change the general education curriculum.
And these can be broken down into instructional modifications or assessment modifications.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So instructional modifications are changes to what we are expecting the students to learn. So we are changing what we're even presenting to a student. If we're talking about the instructional modifications, these may include an alternative instruction at a slower place also, kind of meaning we're covering less things.
This could include replacing all or part of a reading or writing curriculum with something else.
This can be where a reading intervention enters in. It really depends on the school. I have some students in private schools that are really being taken totally out of whatever they're doing in the first part of ELA, and their first part at ELA is phonics instruction instead, even though that's not what their peers are doing at that time.
We don't want this to be a forever thing. Right.
Modifications is something we do need to be very careful about putting into place because we are changing the expectations. Then for these kids, alternative assignments may be a thing, too. So a student with dyslexia may be expected to read a book that's at a lower level than their peers.
They may have alternative spelling words, so they may target skills that they're learning and intervention. I have students like this, too, where some families get it worked out with school.
They send me a list of words ahead of time and I scan it over for, okay, these words are fair game for the student. These ones are really good practice. These ones are nowhere near fair for these students like this. They don't have this concept yet. That is a modification. We're changing what we're expecting for a kid.
Reduced homework load.
Sounds like that's kind of something that you've got set up with your son, right? Yeah. So, you know, it can be really difficult for a student with dyslexia to complete the same homework load as a neurotypical student.
Yeah, modifications can be very, very helpful.
We do want to try our best to not make them be permanent, permanently in place, especially if we're thinking about, okay, what are you future goals for these students? I mean, eventually where they end up is going to matter. So on the assessment side of things, so on the assessment, this is when we are changing the way we're deciding if a student has gotten the information or not, right. So this is where we're changing the way what, we're determining what we want the student to have learned this can include testing in an audio format where in fact, we are trying to target reading comprehension.
So if we're trying to target and understand, does the student get this from print? If we're reading it to them, we've changed that expectation. Now we are no longer testing reading comprehension.
We're testing do they understand it when they're told the information.
Another one is a use of the calculator or a times table, even when math facts are being tested.
So I think a large takeaway on this accommodation modification part is that accommodations all can take place in general education settings.
A modification. We are changing either what is being taught or what is being expected from our students. Those are things that in fact do change the general education of our students.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: So does that mean that modifications are usually in an IEP only or can they be in a 504?
[00:23:49] Speaker A: So that is a very good question.
My answer is it depends. Typically, as a very broad general rule, typically if a student has a 504, that is largely an accommodation plan.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: Okay?
[00:24:06] Speaker A: If a student has an individualized education plan, that is a plan for both accommodations and modifications, okay. Typically, if a student has an IEP, we have gone through that Holy Valley process, which I know you're familiar with.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: Very much so, yes.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: Takes a long time. It's a lot.
We have determined at that point as a team that this is a student who does need both accommodations and modifications in order to access that is honestly the true meaning of least restrictive environment.
That's actually where that is coming from.
We'll talk more on that nugget on a different episode, too.
But yeah, the team has determined that both accommodations and modifications are necessary for this student.
So anytime you have that in place, we do need to be thinking about is this in line with this student's need?
And I think another point on accommodations and modifications is that we should be paying attention to these every single year. If we have a student on an IEP or 504, we are meeting as a team every single school year, right?
[00:25:43] Speaker B: That's correct, yeah.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: Mandatory.
And we, I think, and I've been guilty of it, the special education side of things is kind of blowing past that section and kind of saying, well, this is what we've always done for this kid, so we're just going to keep doing what we've always done. It really does warrant a discussion every year. Is this accommodation still making sense for the student? Are they using it? If not, why does it make sense for the student to still get this accommodation?
Have we not taught them how to use it, which is another whole section. I think we could do an entire episode about how do we teach our students to use these accommodations and modifications appropriately.
But it does. It has to be an ongoing discussion.
There's a lot of reasons for that, and I'm thinking of one pretty in particular coming from, again, high school background.
It was a big part of my job to transition students from high school student to whatever their path was going to take them.
Often that was four year college, often that was a tech school, even if it was directly to a job. What you have written in that IEP, someone outside of a school, like the college board, for example, it is mandatory in the state of Wisconsin that every single junior takes the act.
That is a big ask.
It's a big ask.
The way that it is determined what accommodations and modifications a student may have on the act, for example, is an entirely different process from what the IEP team has determined. And one of the things they look at is, has this accommodation been in place for a long time, and what is the evidence that it fits the diagnosis?
That's another reason to use the diagnosis term.
People outside of schools do use it. Colleges use that diagnostic term. The college board uses the diagnostic term.
I mean, we've had students come to us for assessments and they're trying to take the MCAT exam.
They need it.
If they see this hasn't really been in place for a long time, or this doesn't really make sense for this diagnosis code, they're going to deny it.
And then it's an appeals process and that's a whole thing.
So it does become pretty important that we're actually thinking about from year to year. Is this still making sense for our students?
What can we add to? What could we potentially take away?
[00:29:05] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good point, because, yeah, there's been many times where we just skip that section.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I've definitely been guilty on it for sure.
We're just gonna do what we've always done and it's like, well, hold on. We have to make sure we're remembering this is individualized meetings here.
[00:29:29] Speaker B: Correct.
Life outside dyslexia.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: All right, so we always like to end our episodes with what's going on in our real lives, so to speak.
Yeah, I think for me right now, it is currently September, and I am loving the fall weather. Lately we've been spending a lot of time outside, enjoying some part time after school. It's been a good routine for us that I get home from work and I take the kids to the park. And my husband makes dinner. Score.
And, you know, I get to just kind of enjoy some time with my kids outside this Friday, my son has a cross country fun run. He's in first grade, so, you know, I'm sure it's gonna be real cute and short, but I'm particularly looking forward to that. I was pretty heavily involved in cross country as a kid, so I'm kind of like, oh, this is so fun. Watching him get excited about it. He's really excited.
I do not currently run just side by. I gave that life up a long time ago, but watching him do it is a lot of fun.
[00:30:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and for me, I think it's the same thing. The weather has been gorgeous. It's in the eighties for September. That's wonderful for Wisconsin.
The leaves on the trees are changing, though, and I love that part of fall. I don't like the fact that it's going to be cold soon, but I do love the pretty leaves because in Wisconsin, it just kind of goes throughout the whole state, and it's beautiful. Um, so, yeah, that's kind of.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm loving, like, a late night fire in our fire pit, for sure.
Yeah. Loving it.
Yes.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: So thank you for joining us today. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or would like us to discuss a topic. If you like our show, make sure you follow us and rate our show on your podcast player. This is how we reach more listeners and more families. Thank you.
[00:31:46] Speaker A: Thank you.
