Episode 113-Homework survival tips for parents

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Nicole. [00:00:07] Speaker B: And I'm Maggie. [00:00:08] Speaker A: Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children. What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will all be covered in this podcast. Parents are not alone and we want to give voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having. This is a safe place to learn more, how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation. [00:00:40] Speaker B: Hi, everybody. Welcome to episode 113 of Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We're going to talk about today. We're going to start our podcast like we always do, and that is with the concept of the week. So the concept of the week is our opportunity as practitioners to kind of peel back the curtain and let you all into an intervention session. So we like to teach about things that either we would talk directly to our students about or things that we would coach families and caregivers on. So today's concept of the week is the 10 minute rule. This is really more of a guideline, but many advocate groups, including the National Education association and the national PTA, endorse this 10 minute rule guideline. So this is a guideline for how much time students should spend on homework per night. So in first grade it's about 10 minutes. And we're talking total about 10 minutes in first grade. And then every grade level after that we would add an additional 10 minutes. So example second grade would be about 20 minutes, third grade about 30 minutes. We get up to middle school and that's kind of capped at between 60 and 90 minutes. So about an hour to an hour and a half. Really even all the way up through high school, really the optimal benefits of homework at that high school level show about an hour and a half to two and a half hours on the very high end. That is what produces actual academic gains. That's when we are focusing on the correct things when in homework, anything after that, really. Now we're in that danger zone where research very much suggests that anything over that two and a half mark is now we are interfering with sleep. We are experiencing often high stress, anxiety and health complaints. Right. Often these are our students who are constantly sleep deprived. And now they've got headaches and, and stomach aches and really some poor health effects related to spending so much time on homework. After school. [00:03:17] Speaker A: So welcome to episode 113, which we are going to be talking about homework survival tips for parents. Because it's been a year for me for sure. And I think both of us, if you kind of. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Same same. I am having a. Experience. [00:03:37] Speaker A: Yes. In [00:03:38] Speaker B: my house right now. [00:03:40] Speaker A: Exactly. So, yeah. So kind of looking back at kind of what's been going on for us is we had a very good discussion, Maggie and I did, about Wilson and his homework and why nothing can really be changed with homework unless it's changed on an iep, even if your student is struggling and he cannot do 5th grade math no matter what. And that is fine, but we can't like bring it back until like his IEP reassessment is completed. So just kind of wanted kind of to have that discussion because I think Maggie really explained it well on why that is. And so why don't you tell her? And [00:04:29] Speaker B: I mean, I think it's so frustrating, right? Because it. So Wilson is a student who is in fifth grade and not on the fifth grade level for math right now. He's in a place where he's a little bit stuck because his IEP1 is actually not in effect right now. We're in the process, right? It's going [00:04:50] Speaker A: to [00:04:51] Speaker B: happen, but it's not really in the. It's not happening right now. And so what the school is obligated to do is assign him work at that fifth grade level, even though we know that's not where he is. But formally, we don't have any documentation on paper right now that the school legally can recognize to bring that level down. So if a school school is assigning work that is not on grade level, especially at a lower grade level, they're in danger of really litigation by parents. And really it is a legal protection to protect kids. Right. That are showing struggles and to not be kind of not have things watered down and kind of brought down where it isn't needed. And it is also they want them to practice that grade level work for a kid like Wilson and many others. We can see how I understand why this is in place. But it's not working. Like this does not work for him and it doesn't work for a lot of students who are struggling. I think we need to take a step back and understand what is the purpose of homework. The purpose of homework is to practice things. Frankly, we already know from school research shows. I mean, in elementary school, to be honest, it's not even about academic gains. We know no matter how much time we're Spending on homework in elementary school, it is not tied to academic gains. What it is doing is that sense of responsibility, that sense of, actually, this is my responsibility. My learning is my responsibility. This is something I should be doing outside of school. So it's building habits that are not related to academics. Really. Research doesn't suggest until high school there's really any academic gain. I'm not saying we shouldn't ever do homework, but let's understand what its purpose is and why. Why are we spending any time on it in the first place? [00:07:10] Speaker A: Right. So if you're in a spot like I am, what can a parent do to help their child? [00:07:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think parents can really do a lot. And to be honest, I would like to make it my personal mission to tell parents, like, actually, you can control a lot of this, Especially at that elementary and even into middle school years where we know the purpose of homework is really just to build additional habits. I think my number one recommendation here is that we understand at what point we have diminishing returns. So we are going to set a timer. We are going to work on this math for. No longer. Right. For Wilson. I know it's math. Me too. That's my son. That's my [00:08:07] Speaker A: bro. [00:08:08] Speaker B: So I'm gonna pick on math tonight. But just know, this kind of applies to all subject matters. We are going to set a timer, and we're going to work to the very best of our ability for, let's say, 20 minutes. Okay. We're gonna work really hard. We're gonna work the best that we can work. And when that timer dings, we are done. I don't care if the assignment is complete. We're done. No, no. Learning is happening. We're no longer reinforcing any kind of responsibility or building any good habits. All we're doing is, like, nothing, really. All we're doing is experiencing frustration. So you be the judge as a parent. How hard is your kid working? You know, your kid. You have a good sense of that in you. And when it's done, it's. It's done. [00:09:09] Speaker A: Yeah. So, like, some good things to have just around your homework area would be, you know, eliminate the distractions, which I know is not that easy to do in most households, but absolutely. A place, a common place, that you do it every day at the same place at the same time, and then just remove, like, any other things that may be played with or used or manipulated or all sorts of different things. [00:09:41] Speaker B: All the things. Yeah, [00:09:42] Speaker A: all the things. [00:09:43] Speaker B: Control the things you can control, you know, for us, homework happens at the kitchen table. The end. It's not a. It's not up for debate. And nothing else is really happening while homework is being done. [00:10:04] Speaker A: Correct. Another good thing is if you know your student can't handle more than 20 minutes at a time, set a timer. When the timer goes off, you take a break. [00:10:18] Speaker B: Yes. [00:10:19] Speaker A: Or if they're done, done, you stop. I mean, [00:10:23] Speaker B: 100%. Most kids, I would argue like 20 minutes in one stretch. That's. That's way too long for most kids. It's frankly way too long for most adults. So it's okay if that chunk of time is broken up. That's all. Right. [00:10:43] Speaker A: Right. Exactly. Bigger tasks, like bigger homework assignments, can be broken up into smaller ones. And I think that's something as a parent that you have to help do at first. Because they won't know how to do that. [00:10:58] Speaker B: No, they won't. They really can't. And they don't really understand that it is an option. You might get a lot of resistance from kids that are like, well, no, my teacher said I have to do this amount. And usually they actually can. If you break it up chunk by chunk. [00:11:17] Speaker A: Correct. So I mean, that's really important, you know, positive feedback over the process. Not really if they're getting it right or wrong. Right. Because they're this. The reason for most kids when they start with homework is to learn how do you do homework and why do you do homework and. [00:11:39] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:11:40] Speaker A: So [00:11:42] Speaker B: in the discomfort for a little while. [00:11:44] Speaker A: Correct. [00:11:45] Speaker B: It is good for kids to sit in some level of discomfort. We are not talking about five alarm fire in our bodies. That's too much. [00:11:55] Speaker A: Correct. [00:11:56] Speaker B: But to experience something that is hard for them and to be able to push through is really important. And you can totally offer positive feedback about that. That was really hard for you and you did it anyway. Good for you. [00:12:10] Speaker A: Correct. Talk to the teacher early if you're struggling with homework. They don't know that unless you tell them [00:12:19] Speaker B: 100%. I can tell you this as a former teacher. I can tell you this as an interventionist. Sometimes I send home things with families and while they're with me, they have this concept, they've got it, they nail it. But once they're at home, the environment is changing. Maybe the parent just has a different approach or words they use. And then all of a sudden that student is like, cannot handle it. And if I don't know that, I cannot make a change to what I'm assigning. [00:12:56] Speaker A: Correct. Offer choices. Do you want to start with meth or Reading first. Right. That gives them some control, which they appreciate quite a bit. So, [00:13:08] Speaker B: yeah, absolutely. And, you know, again, make them choices that are that. Right. Do you want to do your reading or your math first? We are doing both. Both are happening. But which one do you want to start with? And keep those parameters tight around those choices. [00:13:32] Speaker A: Correct. Also, maybe they need to look at learning differences at the school. I mean, if there's something going on that's really impacting them and how they can study, do homework, maybe you need to bring that up too. [00:13:52] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I think too, not only do the teachers really not, they obviously don't know what's going on at home, just like you don't know what's going on in the classroom. I feel like, especially with my son, he goes to school, it's like a black hole of time. I know absolutely nothing about what goes on there all day. He refuses to talk about his school day. He won't talk about it. It is the truly unknown block of time for me. And so all the information I have comes from his teacher, which in third grade, there's not that much information. She's not giving me a blow by blow. Right. She's not telling me, oh, we're doing this. And this is how he reacted. I mean, I really, honest goodness, have no clue what's going on in his classroom during the day. And she has no idea what's happening in my home at night. She does not have, you know, as far as I know, she does not have that gift of sight and cannot peer into my dining room table. And so sometimes it really is just this, oh my gosh, it's a mystery on either end of the spectrum. And so really being able to have those kinds of conversations with those teachers so that we can start to spot things like those learning differences in those kids. [00:15:32] Speaker A: Well, and also, if at home something major is going on and the teacher has no idea, they're going to be pushing, [00:15:40] Speaker B: yes, [00:15:40] Speaker A: you know, academics, because that's their job. That's what they're doing. They're trying to get. And if you don't tell them that, you know, somebody's sick, something really drastic happened, or something's going on with one of the other kids in the family or the dog, somebody else in the extended family that might be impacting that student for them, they can't support them at school. And they also will not have a clue about how to support you at home [00:16:09] Speaker B: 100%. They're going to just assume business as usual unless you communicate with Them. And that's going to mean I'm sending home the same assignment for every kid, because that's what I'm supposed to do, at least on the general ed side of things. That is the expectation of them. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Correct. But during that turbulent time, maybe they can do something to help with maybe how long it is or something just for the time being, just to help that student get through a stressful time at home. [00:16:44] Speaker B: Exactly. And I think this is just another opportunity to say that most teachers got into the business of teaching because they love kids and they love teaching, they love the art of it, and most teachers are going to have a very reasonable approach, especially in elementary school, about what is the expectation for this outside of the classroom. You're going to get most teachers to go, oh, thank you for letting me know. What can I do to help? [00:17:27] Speaker A: Exactly. And then just remember those times that Maggie went over at the beginning. You know, if it's more than the times that developmentally is appropriate for your student, maybe talking to the teacher to seeing what is going on or maybe breaking it up more, how she could help with kind of that balance. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Because really, again, what happens a lot, and this is just. It's really rooted and in the way we learn, is generally a student will do more quality academic work at school. And that is because that is the environment in which they are learning this concept. So that is where their brain is ready and it's on. And it. Oh, yeah. I remember when she said to do this. Oh, yes. I have the anchor chart right there to look at. I have all the tools available to help me learn that are not as available at home. So you are likely to see less quality academic work at home than at school, at least until it's practiced to automaticity. So they are expecting somewhat of a gap. They don't know how big of a gap that is unless you tell them [00:18:58] Speaker A: correct. Something not to do is don't do your child's homework for them. [00:19:03] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, yes. I'm [00:19:06] Speaker A: sure Maggie has stories. [00:19:07] Speaker B: Please, for the love of all things holy, do not. Or [00:19:12] Speaker A: have their siblings do it for them. Don't, [00:19:14] Speaker B: Don't. You're not helping anybody. You're not helping anybody, including your kid. If you are doing your child's homework for them or over and above explaining it to them over and above putting so many scaffolds in place so that they can do it [00:19:38] Speaker A: and then [00:19:39] Speaker B: you're sending it back to school, you know what that teacher is reading. Oh, they did their homework. They got it. [00:19:45] Speaker A: They [00:19:45] Speaker B: Did a great job. Everything's fine. They are not, they are not aware of what is going on in your house and doing your kids homework for them is going to just. It's gonna wreck them later. I'm, I just, I'm gonna tell you that they're not. It's not a true picture of what they can do on their own. It is tempting. I say this with compassion because I have been like in literal tears about my own kids third grade math homework. Come on, what is this life? I should not, um, not to mention his emotional turmoil, but like, oh my gosh, no. Doing your kids homework for them. Not. I will say this. It is really okay. And I do this. I write in the margins of my kids homework how much help I provide. I will bullet point out. This is what I did. I provided these manipulatives. I drew this picture for him or I, you know, I highlighted the key words. I will draw out what I have done so that the teacher can understand. You know, he did it, but he did it with a lot of assistance from me. [00:21:18] Speaker A: And sometimes you just need to let them fail. [00:21:20] Speaker B: Huh? The worst. The worst and true. You know, just hear me very clearly say that. Okay. If your kid is, you know, failing their homework in elementary school, that is not going to plague them for the, for the rest of their life. One, you probably care about that way more than they do. And two, someone from the school needs to see that. Actually, no. Outside of the classroom or outside of these parameters, this kid can't complete this work. This is not something they are able to do yet. [00:22:13] Speaker A: Correct. And that's also a good way for them to see, oh, maybe we need to test something or look at something deeper. So if you're fixing it the whole time, they can't see that as a teacher. [00:22:28] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. You know, just like, you know, all of us parents. Anybody who's listening to this, I know you have written email to your kids teacher, hi. What can I do at home to support your work in the classroom? Right. On the other end of that is usually a teacher who wants to know what they can do to support you guys at home. You know, requires teamwork. Raising these kids is not a lone wolf enterprise. It requires a pack. [00:23:03] Speaker A: Correct. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Yeah, [00:23:08] Speaker A: they do. [00:23:09] Speaker B: Yes, they do. Yeah. It's been a struggle with homework this. This year. [00:23:17] Speaker A: Third grade math and fifth grade math are definitely winning on our ends. [00:23:23] Speaker B: 100, 100. My win column. No, no, [00:23:29] Speaker A: no, [00:23:29] Speaker B: no. I'm. I'm putting up zeros right now. [00:23:32] Speaker A: Yeah, me too. [00:23:34] Speaker B: And it is Struggling. Yeah. [00:23:37] Speaker A: It is very hard, though, to be like, okay, yeah, this is where we're at. [00:23:42] Speaker B: It is. It is really hard. As a parent, I think the emotional toll of when your kid is really struggling to do homework, again, I want to say one, it is somewhat expected that students will struggle to recall what is needed to complete homework, even if they've done an excellent job in the classroom. Both things could be true. How many times do we have a conversation with a parent and even our own kids and experiences where a teacher will say, hey, they are. They're reading fluently and they read this amount of words per minute, and they were 97% accurate, and they were able to complete all of the comprehension questions, and they knocked it right out of the park. And then you read with that same student at home, and it's a mess. Right? That's common. It is not only our neurotypical, our neurodiverse kids, but also neurotypical kids. That is. That is to be expected. Now, the degree and what to do about it, that's kind of what changes on the individual side. [00:25:05] Speaker A: Correct. So, Maggie, what's happening beyond dyslexia? [00:25:10] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. We continue to have the most absolutely gorgeous fall I think I've ever experienced in Wisconsin. And it has been. [00:25:24] Speaker A: It's been amazing in the [00:25:25] Speaker B: 60s and 70s. I mean, the colors on our trees. I mean, we live in a very beautiful area of the country in the Midwest fall. If. I mean, it's gorgeous here, [00:25:41] Speaker A: but [00:25:42] Speaker B: it is a level up. The fact that we still have so many trees. It is. As we record this, it is the end of October. Halloween is tomorrow just blowing my mind. And we still have so many leaves on our trees still that are gorgeous. And I'm loving every second of that. What's going on? [00:26:07] Speaker A: Well, I have to say it. [00:26:10] Speaker B: Yes. I had to leave it to you. You are the true. You are the true fan. [00:26:14] Speaker A: I've been a Brewers fan since. Since I was a really little kid. And they won the World Series. [00:26:20] Speaker B: Yeah, they did. I had to leave that one for you. You are the true, true baseball fan, and I absolutely could not steal that thunder from you. Oh, my gosh. [00:26:30] Speaker A: Yeah, like two days ago, they won. So Wisconsin and Milwaukee are amazing right now. The people in the streets, the people who are celebrating. The brewers went to the Packer game last night and they, like, did the Lambo leap. It was amazing. [00:26:50] Speaker B: Did you see the racing sausages, too? [00:26:52] Speaker A: Yes, yes. They went to Green Bay also. [00:26:55] Speaker B: I know. [00:26:56] Speaker A: I have to admit, I'm a more fan [00:26:58] Speaker B: of the racing sausages than I am of the Brewers. It's my favorite part. [00:27:04] Speaker A: So, yeah, if you don't know what those are, you need to look them up. But they. It's amazing. And, I mean, I've been a band since I was really little, so I. I had all their baseball cards and all the. I had everything. And it's just been amazing to see because it's their first time ever winning the World Series. It [00:27:25] Speaker B: is. It is truly the coolest. I am really not a baseball fan, but definitely watched all of the postseason games and actually many of the games regular season, which is usually. It's usually not my thing. But what blows me away is the way they relate to each other and how much of a really true team they were. And that is so special. It was so cool. And I think way beyond the sport of baseball, like it is. [00:28:02] Speaker A: Yes, [00:28:03] Speaker B: yes. Baseball was the thing they did, but the specialness and the history making and, you know, they did it for Bob Euker, who I love. [00:28:16] Speaker A: I think everybody loves him. I don't know. [00:28:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. I think I. That's not even a whiskey. [00:28:22] Speaker A: Mr. Baseball. [00:28:23] Speaker B: Mr. Baseball. He did [00:28:24] Speaker A: it. They [00:28:26] Speaker B: did [00:28:26] Speaker A: it. [00:28:26] Speaker B: Yep. They did it, and they did it for him, and it was so cool. [00:28:33] Speaker A: It was. [00:28:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Yay, Brewers. Yeah. So exciting. Well, thank you, everybody, for listening. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or you would like us to discuss a topic. If you do like our show, be sure to follow and rate our show on your favorite podcast players. Truly, that is how we reach more listeners, and then we get to help more families. Thank you, everybody. [00:29:00] Speaker A: Thank you.