Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: Hi, I'm Nicole. Welcome to Dac Dyslexia and Coffee podcast. We are so happy that you could join us. We are both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children, what dyslexia is, how it affects our kids. Strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will also be covered in this podcast.
Parents are not alone, and we want to give a voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having. This is a safe place to learn more about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: Hi, everybody. So welcome to episode eight.
We're gonna start, as always, with the concept of the week. So, the concept of the week is our opportunity to pull down the curtain a little bit. Pull back the curtain, maybe not down.
Pull back the curtain a little bit and let you in to what we would be talking about in our intervention sessions. So, today's concept of the week is a syllable. A syllable is a word or a part of a word with one vowel sound. So, for example, the word cat. ONE syllable.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: All right, I'm going to throw in a question here.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Oh, boy.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Oh, boy.
Why are syllables so important to US?
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Ooh. Syllables are the building blocks. We can't have a Word without syllables. So syllables are really, really important. That's how we build words.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: And why is it important for Our students to learn this?
[00:01:49] Speaker A: It's very important for our students to learn this because there are actually six different syllable types. It's really important for Them to start to learn to hone in on those vowel sounds, especially. It's very important for them to be able to break larger words up into syllables. It's critical for decoding THe ability to read. Right. And it's also critical to the encoding process, the SPELLiNg process. So we get a lot of kids in here, right, that are trying to read these really, really Big words as one long string. And so we teach them how to break those up into syllables for reading and for spelling.
[00:02:35] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: Today's topic is a little bit.
We're continuing our topic of different kinds of diagnoses that go with dyslexia, and this one today is about language developmental delays. We will discuss how this impacts them academically and socially.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Yeah. So children with dyslexia often come with more language developmental delays. There are many different kinds of these diagnoses, and we're going to discuss them at a broad level today.
Language disorders can kind of be broken down into two big categories, they can be expressive, receptive, or both.
So an expressive language disorder, some of the signs and symptoms of an expressive language disorder is a child will use really vague words like thing or stuff when they really mean something more specific.
They may have lower than average vocabulary. They may have trouble finding words. They use simple sentences or short phrases, even kind of past where that would be developmentally appropriate. They use words incorrectly.
They leave outwards when they're speaking. Speaking.
These students, they could be late talkers.
They may speak too quietly or too loudly. Something like articulation would be associated with an expressive language disorder.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Sometimes they string the words close together. You can't pull them apart as easy.
A student or a child with receptive language disorder may have trouble with understanding what people say, understanding gestures, understanding concepts or big ideas, understanding what he or she reads, having trouble learning new words? Maybe answering questions are difficult, following directions is difficult, or identifying objects.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: So many of these signs and symptoms, including delayed speech, they're actually warning signs of dyslexia. This does not mean that they cause dyslexia. Researchers believe that there's the reason for the high correlation between a child who is a late talker and a child who has dyslexia is because a child with dyslexia dyslexia likely has a deficit in that phonological or phonemic awareness piece. This means that they are having difficulty, they're processing the speech sounds. These children may have a difficult time breaking words into their component sounds, so they may have trouble segmenting, they may have trouble blending.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: Trouble with rhyming.
[00:05:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. Also warning signs of dyslexia.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: Articulation. That's when students have trouble with articulation. That's when they're not able to say the sounds clearly.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Big one. Of course, parents, right. Those L's and R's especially, that could th. Oh, yeah, th. A lot of.
They're substituting sounds for other sounds.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: And speech therapy can help with all of these different speech concerns. They're a great collaboration with us. We work a lot with them, and it's also speech concerns can also impact social interactions of these students. So having a team is very important.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
So a student with especially a receptive language disorder, they may have a lot of difficulty picking up on the social context or the social rules related to school or even at home, out in the community.
We're going to talk a lot about school today, but this impacts them way beyond just school.
They may need extra time to process the information, and they're not able to respond in a timely manner. They may have difficulty understanding jokes, sarcasm, slaying, or puns.
I think these students are the ones that just don't. That sarcasm is that. That requires a lot of brain power to pick up on sarcasm.
I can think of a funniest story.
I hope you're okay with Busharin.
Okay, so I can think of a funny story.
One time, Nicole's son was here, and he had recently broken his arm and he had gotten his cast off. And I said, wow, buddy, it's like, oh, your wing is repaired. And he just looked at me like, dead in the face and like, I do not have a wing.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: Yes, yes, I can see.
[00:08:19] Speaker A: Yes, yes. It's like those kinds of kids that it's.
I do not understand what you are saying. Nope.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: A student with expressive language disorder may not be able to respond as fast when talking to their peers. This also can impact the social interactions.
They are still trying to find the words.
And so their peers may become frustrated on how loud, how long it is taking the student to answer them, or. And so they move on to other activity or different peers because it just takes that student too long to answer that question or follow that direction, and so the other student gets frustrated and does something else.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: Or a lot of these kids, too, they'll answer a question that they think is being asked, but it's not really being asked, that it can create some frustration with those peers, especially on that younger side, those elementary school kids who they're really not expecting a peer to not answer them directly or come up with an answer that doesn't make sense to the situation. So that can cause all kinds of social, I don't know, spider webs of chaos.
So let's kind of pivot a little bit, and let's talk about what are some ways to help these students. And we're going to kind of frame this from a school context. So we're going to frame this at how are we going to help these kids in the classroom or in the school based environment?
Like Nicole said earlier, first and foremost, this is where we're going to work with a speech and language pathologist that is a person who is specifically trained in all kinds of language disorders. That is really their area of expertise. And so it's really important if a student is experiencing a language delay, it's really important to get a full language evaluation in order to really better understand the type of language disorder we're looking at, because that's going to really affect what we're going to do that's going to affect the intervention. If we don't have a good picture of, is this receptive? Is it expressive, is it both? What really is going on in this kid's neural pathways that's affecting this?
We really do need to get a good picture. And that for this particular field, that's going to come from a speech and language pathologist, either at school or an outside evaluation.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: And that also helps the, the whole team. Right. Parents, teachers, everybody know how to support the students once they have that information, how to support them in social interactions at school, how to help them be able to progress with academics, all sorts of different things.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: Absolutely right. It kind of circles back to why are we really big on using the word dyslexia when we're describing dyslexia?
Same principle here. There are many, many different types of language disorders, some named and not named. But if it has a name, let's use it. Let's use the diagnostic terms. That's going to be the best jumping off point for having conversations.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: Another part of the team that might be very helpful here is an occupational therapist, because they can modify the environment and help with educating the class and individuals in the social skills aspect.
Occupational therapists are really good at modeling social skills, having groups with social skills to help peers interact with each other. And so having them as part of the team is also a good way to help the student be more successful.
[00:12:47] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And kind of pairing in a really kind of controlled manner, students with language delays and students without language delays.
This can really provide a really safe place to practice these social skills. Right. Any student, regardless of a diagnosis, any young elementary school kid and beyond could really benefit from this type of social practice and kind of understanding their peers better. Right. If they kind of have an idea of like, oh, that's really something that's kind of more difficult for, you know, Sally over there. Okay. All right. I can probably be part of the solution. So that's also something to keep in mind. Is that as a tool that's used a lot, is kind of pairing students, kind of picking out some of those kind kids in the class. Right. To kind of. To kind of be a helpful, a helpful peer. And they get a lot of out of that interaction, too.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: They get to learn a lot, too.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: And I think also in this day and age, with the technology and everybody being on technology so much, sometimes I think social skills are a little bit more difficult for students to pick up on their own. Yes.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: Yes. I mean, I look at Millie's class and what's kind of fun? That's my daughter, and she's in four k. And it is very interesting to watch. Those are kids kind of born in 2020, the dreaded 2020.
It's been interesting to watch some of the differences between kind of her class and even Aiden's class. Being just a couple years older and having some of those more practice. I think it's been a very.
It's been an interesting time to be alive, that's for sure.
But, yeah, these social still groups, they can be a really helpful tool.
You know, staff really models behavior. They teach discrete social skills. That's one of the things I think my kids school is really doing a good job at. They're, I think, being pretty proactive about all kids need to learn these social skills, and we're gonna teach everybody these skills, and then we're going to also break out into smaller groups to practice these skills. And they send these materials home. And the expectation is you're also supposed to be practicing this at home.
You know, if that's key, a student really does need to understand that this is not just a practiced skill at school.
Funny story about my son when he was in four k, I think 4k, he got one of these kind of sheets sent home, and I was talking to him about some social skill, and he's like, no, mom, I don't have to do that at home. That's just a school thing.
No, sir.
No, sir. That is an all the time forever thing.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and these groups really help with practicing the skills, and then they transition, like, either into general education or at home. Right.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: And we really want to keep modeling those things. Some examples of some social skills might be, you know, taking turns or waiting in line or asking for help. Like, there's different things that our students really just.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: And what's so tricky is these are difficult to teach as a discrete skill because they also require a lot of executive functioning. A kid really has to be flexible about turn taking. There are times where, yep, it's my turn to talk and then your turn to talk, and then my turn again. And then there are other times where it would be expected to, quote unquote, interrupt a person.
There are different rules for different situations, and that's why practicing in a group, I think, is such an important piece of it.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Right. Definitely.
[00:17:22] Speaker A: That's such an important part of it, because it's just not the kind of thing that you can teach one on one and then not extend the activity into the general education setting.
[00:17:37] Speaker B: Exactly. And I think for our students. Right. With these language delays, it's even more important because. Right. They need to learn how to be a little quicker at answering a question or their peers need to learn to wait until the other person can answer the question because it's both. It's both.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: Right. And, you know, sometimes, too, it's teaching a kid with an expressive language disorder a couple of phrases to keep in their back pocket, like, oh, I need a minute, or I'm not sure about that. And those phrases can be really helpful for a student who does need a minute, but they kind of have to be automatic about pulling them out of their pocket in the moment and going, oh, yeah, I need one of my go to phrases.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: Exactly. And if they don't practice it, it's not going to come out as automatic.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: Absolutely.
So in terms of accommodations and modifications. Right. So things that we can do, we're talking kind of more in the actual classroom now, these are absolutely not one size fits all at all, especially when we have such a broad topic today, like language disorders, these have to be thought about in the context of the individual student, what we're talking about. Some things that can be helpful. Extended time, alternative setting for tests sometimes, especially those kids who get overwhelmed easily, having a quieter place to take their test, instruction in a smaller group, that can be pretty critical. Cut down on those distractions.
Preferential seating. So again, maybe closer to the teacher where the teacher can have a better view of the student.
That can be a helpful intervention for this kid. Also a seat that is actually facing the teacher.
If this kid is having trouble picking up on a lot of the environmental cues and a lot of our language is nonverbal. So a lot of language disorders, right. They have to do with not being able to discern those nonverbal cues as well. And so if you're not really facing somebody, that's going to be extra difficult for that student.
Pre teaching and reteaching concepts, taking those kids aside and kind of saying, we're going to be talking about fractions tomorrow and this is kind of a good pre teaching and then reteaching later. Sometimes they just need more than one presentation because they're just busy processing the information, using audiobooks or having staff read assignments to the student, especially if they really are struggling with that things in print.
These are also students that may need a slower speed. Right. They may need to hear it slower.
They may need to hear it more than once. So breaking things up into multiple sessions can be helpful for these students, allowing verbal answers or being able to show their knowledge in a different way. If you have a kid who is really struggling to get their words out or to write something down, maybe we have to be creative, really, depending on the situation, maybe we have to be creative about how are we expecting this kid to show that they know the material.
If you've got a kid with an expressive language disorder who can't get their words out, but their receptive language is fine, which absolutely happens, there's a lot of kids like this where they're getting it. They are understanding what you're talking about. They just cannot get their words out.
There are a lot of ways I've had kids be able to draw pictures instead of write their answers in certain ways. I've had kids that are allowed to dance even, or kind of show, like just show with their bodies that they know what they're talking about. This does require some rolling up the sleeves and getting creative. Yes, it does require time. School staff. It does. It does require time, and it requires a lot of collaboration. It requires teamwork.
But a lot of those kids, they do know, and they should be allowed to show that information in their best capacity.
And on the other side of it, if you have a kid who expressively is fine, but receptively is having trouble, they're expressing only part of the information because they haven't really processed at all. So this does require creativity, and this does require some collaboration and thoughts. And if you have an older student, guess what? That involves the student too. That involves. Okay, what can we all do to make this work?
I know, Nicole, you have some experience with language disorders at your home. What are some of the things that are in place for your kids at school that you feel like have been helpful for them?
[00:23:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, Wilson, our youngest, has expressive linguist disorder, so receptively, he knows what's going on, he understands, but it takes him a long time to get the words out, so he uses pictures sometimes.
The other thing is, we really have worked with speech therapy for many years, and being able to say a full sentence, we have to remind him, say your first sentence. He also had trouble with preposition, so he would use the wrong preposition in a sentence. So instead of he is going, he would say he are going. So then we would have to correct him.
And he's actually gotten a lot better with that. But I mean, it's still something that in his brain, it just comes out that way.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: So a lot of modeling at home of, oh, what did you mean to say? He used to just point at things and we had to get him to stop doing that. We had to use the words, oh, you want the fruit loops? Okay, let's get you froot loops instead of, oh, here's this box. So, yeah, he would pull me by the hand and then just start pointing, which is a good way to communicate when you're really little. But he's in third grade now, and unfortunately, we really need to use our voice.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: We need to use our words.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: But, yeah. And he's able to use, at school, he doesn't do the full worksheet. He does part of a worksheet.
And that's for a couple of different accommodations for him. It just helps him show that he understands it. But he doesn't have to continue to go and go and go because it gets so tiring for him.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: I think that's the thing, right? So these kids with multiple disorders, right.
Their brain is working so much harder to produce the same outcome. So those are those reasons why modifications exist.
That's why, yeah, we, a lot of, in our house, we experience that. This with our youngest has some articulation issues, but she, her vocabulary is very, very, very high. So she is trying to fight.
What I'm really glad to see is she's still trying to use those really complex words. Because what breaks my heart is what I see.
A student who knows a complex, robust vocabulary, but they won't use it because they can't say it or they're embarrassed.
Millie doesn't have that.
She does not embarrass easily, and she is exactly who she is, which. Oh, that's good and bad friends.
But she does have some articulation issues. And sometimes the intervention is Aiden has to not talk for a while because Millie will try to be speaking and try to get her words out. And for her, it's kind of a combination of an articulation and, like, a slight stutter. And so for her, it's just that wait time, wait time, wait time. And she was a little bit of a late talker as well. But I, too, think that kind of came at she was a pointer and she could communicate fine. You knew what that girl wanted all the time, but it always didn't come out in words.
And the helpful, helpful big brother, he would have speak for her a lot. And that was, you know, something we really had to do at home is, okay, this is, this is her work to do. She has to get it out. It's.
Let her be.
[00:27:42] Speaker B: Yeah, that happens at our house, too. Somebody else finishes the sentence if they get a little frustrated with how long it's taken.
[00:27:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And that. And that happens in peers, too. And I have had a lot of experience with older students, and the way this comes out in an older student or even an older adult is someone's having word finding issues and somebody else finishes a sentence for that person and actually isn't on the same page. Right. Like they might insert a word that that person actually wasn't gonna say.
Right. It changes the meaning and the one. And the person. Sometimes they'll be like, oh, yeah, sure. That's. That's what I meant. And it was like, no, it isn't, though. You know, so it really, it's, it's. This one is a complex and interesting topic to get into, but, yeah, there's a lot of. It's not just little kids. I think sometimes we really think of these things as something a person might outgrow. And not always. Not always. These are kinds of the things that do follow them, which makes that early intervention all the more important. Teaching those strategies from an early age so they have enough time to really practice and gain their confidence, too.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: So we like to end with life outside of dyslexia. What's going on at home for us, it's.
I don't know how it can be October already.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: I know.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: Not really. What?
[00:29:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. I know. Conference is coming up already. That's. That's.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Why?
[00:29:51] Speaker A: How?
[00:29:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know how. Yep.
Yeah. So, I mean, we're just kind of getting ready for all the sorry festivities around Halloween because. Yeah. That's all they can talk about right now.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: Oh, yes. So. So what are your children going for?
Trick or treat? Are they trick or treaters?
[00:30:13] Speaker B: They are.
[00:30:13] Speaker A: Okay. Do they have their costumes picked out?
[00:30:16] Speaker B: They do.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: Okay. All right.
[00:30:18] Speaker B: So Katherine, our oldest, is going to be Mel from descendants.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: Like it. All right.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Carolyn is doing something with her school, and they're doing trunk or treat, and she was given anxiety from.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: That.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Is that up to perfect? And then Wilson wants to be Spider man.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: Love it.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: Love it. Yes. Yeah. This is my outside of dyslexia for this week as well. Yeah. It is October, and Halloween costumes is a very big topic of conversation in my home crowd. Currently. Aiden is going to be a mad scientist. This has been picked out for a very long time.
He is Mister science guy. So this fits him to a t. This was a not surprise costume, and it will be great. Millie has had many, many ideas and has yet to pick, and I stick with one. I had the conversation with her yesterday that it is time to do. So we need to pick one and we're going to stick with it because I am not purchasing multiple outfits.
Knowing Millie, she will pick a thing and then we'll just see what actually happens on Halloween.
The girl has her own style opinions that don't always line up exactly with the choices I would maybe make.
Beautiful girl. My gosh. Beautiful purple star pets pants yesterday with a teal dressed.
[00:32:21] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's just how she rolls. And always a bow in the hair. So that's just how she rolls. We'll see. I don't. She was an eighties exercise instructor two years ago. And that is her aesthetic to a tee. That's her. So we'll see what happens this year. I don't know.
I don't know.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: Well, thank you for listening. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or would like us to discuss the topic. If you like our show, be sure to follow and rate our show on your podcast players. This is how we reach more listeners and be able to help more people. So thank you. Thank you.