Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Maggie.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: And I'm Nicole. Welcome to the DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast. We are so happy you could join us. We're both moms and dyslexia interventionists who want to talk about our students and children. What dyslexia is, how it affects our kids, strategies to help and topics related to other learning disabilities will all be covered in this podcast. Parents are not alone, and we want to give voice to the concerns and struggles we are all having. This is a safe place to learn about how to help our children grow and succeed in school, in the world. Grab a cup of coffee and enjoy the conversation.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Hi, everybody. Welcome to episode 16 of DAC Dyslexia and Coffee Podcast.
We like to start our episodes with the concept of the week. The concept of the week is our opportunity to pull back the curtain a bit and teach about what it is we would be teaching in an intervention session. So today's concept of the week is a suffix.
A suffix is something that we add on to the end of a word, and then that changes that base word's meaning. So, for example, probably the most common suffix, S.
All right. Suffix S can say S or Z. If we add it on to a base word, it makes something plural. So, for example, cats or dogs. Now we've gone from one to more than one.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Very good. So today's topic is common questions we get from our parents.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Yes, our parents have many questions for us about dyslexia and issues related to dyslexia.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: So I guess the one that we get most common would be, can you cure dyslexia?
[00:01:57] Speaker A: That one's a nice short one to start with.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: It is. It is.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: Yeah. No.
Dyslexia is a lifelong diagnosis.
We have interventions that assist with bringing up and building that foundation for reading. But. But there is no such thing as a cure for dyslexia. It's part of you. It's a difference in the brain.
So there's nothing to cure here.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: Exactly.
So another question we get is, how do I know if my child has dyslexia?
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Yeah. So getting a diagnosis. Right. Is really how you know if a child has dyslexia. But I think when parents are asking us this question, really, they're asking, what are those things even that I should be looking for? So some red flags that may indicate there could be dyslexia at play.
If you're seeing. We generally tell parents, if we're seeing more than two or three on this list, it's time to give a phone Call to somebody who can do an assessment. So these are some red flags, some things that are correlated with dyslexia.
The sound system is a challenge for you, student. These students may not have all their speech sounds and the time that you would expect them to. They also might mispronounce lots of syllables. That might be a red flag.
Writing and spelling is a really big challenge for your student.
Cannot sound out unfamiliar words. So if they're reading along and it's a word they're not familiar with and they really can't stretch it out, does not read books on their own. Really uninterested in reading.
Even with intervention at school. Still falling behind peers in reading.
A lot of times what we hear from parents is the teachers are saying they're a little bit behind, but, you know, maybe they'll catch up. That is a phrase I want erased from elementary education. Please.
That's. It's time to at least get an assessment.
Also a red flag if there's a family history of dyslexia. So any close relative with dyslexia sometimes too. What we hear a lot is, well, I think maybe my dad struggled with it or I think maybe my mom struggled with it, but I don't know of anybody who has a diagnosis. Diagnosis probably wasn't a diagnosis, but something to take a look at.
And then your student is really intelligent, but the grades just do not reflect that.
[00:05:10] Speaker B: And some of the writing, back to that writing and spelling, one I would definitely look at too. Their legibility.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: The ability to do capitalization, punctuation, organize a paragraph, be able to have paragraphs make sense and be connected in ways that you would think that they should be. That's a big flag too.
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
What about then?
What does an assessment for dyslexia involve?
[00:05:46] Speaker B: That's a great question. We get this question all the time.
We use specific tests that vary by the person or the institution may vary what they are using because there's no specific protocol, I guess I should say. Right.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: And it will. But it does involve standardized norm reference measures of certain things.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: So. And norm referenced means that we. Are we going to say we here? Because Nicole and I both do assessments and our center does assessments. So when we're talking about norm referenced or standardized testing, we're talking about we're going to get a picture of what this child in front of us or adult can do when compared to a group of their same age peers.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Correct. And these assessments have been correlated and repeated enough times that they find that that's where they would land with their peers if they were standing next to them.
So some areas would be phonological awareness.
So that looks more like. Do they know their sounds? Can they put the sounds to the symbols? Are they able to name the Alphabet? Those type of things.
Phonological memory, being able to recall the beginning of the word by the time they get to the end of the word. We do a lot with non real words with those. Because they haven't memorized those yet.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: Yes.
Going to take a look at rapid automatic naming. So can they look at symbols and quickly recognize them? Are they going to look at the letter A and know that that's an A quickly and automatically?
Most of the time we're going to. We're going to look at both letters and digits on a typical dyslexia assessment.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: Correct? Yeah. Because that's pretty correlated.
Also a written language skills assessment, being able to write in a grammar correct way is really important. Using that punctuation, the capitalization.
How is their spelling when they're able to just free write? Because that's also an important aspect.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: We're going to take a look at reading comprehension and most of the time on an assessment too. We're going to take a look at our reading comprehension and likely going to take a look at our listening comprehension too.
In all humans, there's going to be a gap between our ability to listen to information and comprehend it versus us reading information and a person with dyslexia. That's going to be an extra wide gap.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: Correct reading fluency. Are they able to read at a good pace with inflection and in a way that makes sense with the punctuation in the reading passage?
[00:09:17] Speaker A: That's right. Is it smooth? Is it fluid? Does it make sense? Sense? Are we paying attention to when are we pausing?
When are we rushing on?
[00:09:28] Speaker B: Yes. That's important.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: Yes. Are we skipping suffixes? Are we skipping those article words? All of that stuff.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: Are we guessing on words that look similar to other words?
[00:09:40] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: But could change the meaning of the passage.
Non word reading, which is basically using words that are not real but following our spelling and language English language rules and having them sound them out.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: Yep. So. And we would do that for both reading and for spelling.
I get a lot of questions during assessments, even from parents who are kind of maybe a little thrown off by the fact that we're really taking a look at non words. I've had parents ask me before. I mean, I'm very confused. You said they're not words. So what?
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Why are you making Them?
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Why are you making them read them or spell them? So I guess the reason really is that we need to know if this student has just memorized a lot of words.
People with dyslexia tend to be very good memorizers.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: Yes, they are.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: And if they have just memorized a lot of words, that can get them along to a certain point until things get more complex. And we just physically don't have the brain capacity to memorize every single word that we need to be able to read and spell. And so that's going to let us know if that student has mastered an underlining pattern or if that student has just memorized a whole lot of words.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:11:18] Speaker A: Some assessors will also give an IQ.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: Test, although evidence has shown that IQ is not correlated with dyslexia, although this is sometimes a requirement if the person is being tested and is applying for accommodations for certain things or institutions.
So, like taking high stakes exams like the mcat.
They won an IQ test, included.
But the evidence has clearly shown that IQ is not correlated with dyslexia.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: That's right. Any person could have dyslexia, low IQ or high iq.
Most current research suggests that if there's any correlation with dyslexia. Actually, dyslexia is pretty correlated with a high iq, not a low iq.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
Does dyslexia only influence reading? The answer is no.
[00:12:25] Speaker A: No. Individuals with dyslexia may have problems in areas other than reading specifically. Right. They may have difficulties expressing themselves in spoken or written formats. They have problems sometimes in math. A lot of times remembering math facts. This can kind of speak to a lot of people with dyslexia, have issues with rapid automatic naming and so being able to recognize digits quickly. And then also when we're reformatting numbers in math, that can trip them up significantly.
Understanding sequence also can be something that's associated with dyslexia. And also we need it in math.
So that's definitely correlated.
Learning a second language, that can be tremendously difficult for someone with dyslexia.
Also, social skills, social and emotional problems can be associated with dyslexia as well. Dyslexia truly is a learning disability that can affect all aspects of somebody's life, correct?
[00:13:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it is, very much so. And especially in our, I would say our society. Yes.
When you're not able to do the same things that your peers are, people are not very nice sometimes.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that can be. That can be huge. And we have talked about this before on our podcast, but a question associated with this idea is, I Do still have parents? Ask me.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Huh.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: So my student has a dyslexia diagnosis, and really, they do well in math. They're doing great in math. They are even advanced in math in many of the students that I work with. So why is it even important that they're getting those accommodations in math class?
And it's because dyslexia is affecting all aspects of that child's academic life.
And in order to be able to continue doing very well in math, those accommodations is what keeps that student at an even playing field with their peers without dyslexia.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Right, Exactly. Yeah.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: So keep doing well.
[00:15:11] Speaker B: Is dyslexia related to intelligence or motivation? We cannot say this enough.
No, it is not. Lack of intelligence or motivation does not cause dyslexia. Dyslexia can be accompanied by both high and low intelligence and strong and limited motivation. But that is not part of the dyslexia diagnosis. And sometimes the reason you're seeing some of those things is because it's just too hard for your student to do them.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. That's right. A lot of times, right, this. The intersection of this kind of questioning and executive functioning. Right.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: This.
[00:15:58] Speaker A: The way we talk about kids being motivated or not motivated.
A lot of times that comes down to a child executive functioning. Sometimes just being able to start something that you know is going to be incredibly difficult for you.
Hi. That's hard.
Me, this, myself this morning.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: I was procrastinating like, there was absolutely no tomorrow.
So now. And something I knew would be easy, that took me, like, five minutes to do.
Now think about, you know, you have to do something incredibly hard at getting started on that sometimes is just such a. It's such a task. And another phrase I want eliminated from society in general is like, well, they're just being lazy or they're not trying hard enough. If they would just try harder, they would be doing better.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: No, and think about, too.
If you have executive functioning, that's a skill that you need to learn.
[00:17:13] Speaker A: That's correct.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: And if nobody's taught a student how to do those things, they're not going to be able to just do it. Just like I wouldn't be able to sit into an engineering class and know exactly what's happening until somebody taught me that. Right. So it's a skill that you still need to learn. It's not something that just happens.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: That's right. One of the single most important skills we could teach our children, regardless of diagnosis, not diagnosis, is that ability to tolerate being frustrated. Being frustrated happens it is part of life. It is a normal human experience.
And that is a skill. Being able to tolerate being frustrated and work through it anyway is a skill on its own.
When someone has dyslexia, think about how much more often they are frustrated. Exactly right. And that does take time. It's extremely important, but that takes time, and that does not speak to character. I think what's sometimes underneath this question is, you know, is dyslexia related to intelligence or motivation?
Often we equate being smart or motivated to being a good person or not.
And, I mean, that also is false. Okay. But I think sometimes the question underneath this is like, is my kind gonna be able to be successful? Because I don't feel like they're motivated or I don't feel like they're, you know, ready for this, which may or may not be true, but. But that does not have anything to do with them being smart, them being motivated, them being a good person, and have the ability to succeed.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Correct. Now, can individuals who have dyslexia learn how to read?
[00:19:19] Speaker A: Yes.
Yes. There's some good news. Yeah, absolutely.
Individuals with dyslexia can go on to be very strong readers and writers. And writers.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: A lot of authors.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: So many authors. We could do a fun episode about dyslexic authors. That would be a very fun one to do. Yeah. Early intervention is key to this. It's never too late to intervene for students with dyslexia, but the earlier we can get in there, the absolute better outcomes for those students. Research shows programs, you know, using structured literacy, those can really help children and adults. And the earlier the better. But never too late.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Correct. For sure.
How do people get dyslexia?
Well, then the causes of dyslexia are neurobiological and genetic. Chances are that one of the children's parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, may have dyslexia or something related.
Dyslexia is not a disease, so. But with proper diagnosis, appropriate instruction, hard work, and support from family, teachers, friends, and others, individuals who have dyslexia can succeed in school and later as working adults.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
Dyslexia is not something you can catch. But that is thorny because there is a. There is a familial tie. Correct. And even though we know it's neurobiological in nature, we're.
We don't yet know exactly the why.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: So that one is a little thorny. We're not really sure, but we know what can contribute to having dyslexia.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: So does dyslexia only occur In English speakers?
[00:21:26] Speaker A: No, no. Dyslexia is found across cultures, across the world.
It knows no bounds. So anybody can have dyslexia, does not matter if you speak English or not. It also is not correlated even with socioeconomic boundaries either. Any person could have dyslexia. I almost said can get dyslexia. We just talked about that. Guys.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: How many people are affected by dyslexia and how common is it?
Actually, dyslexia is thought to be one of the most common language based learning disabilities. It is the most common cause of reading, writing and spelling difficulties. And often people with reading. Of people with reading difficulties, 70 to 80% are likely to have some form of dyslexia.
So it's pretty common. I'm just going to say that.
[00:22:27] Speaker A: Right, Pretty common.
Really vast. I mean, researchers have come up with lots of different, I guess, bands.
I usually will tell people about 20% of the population, we think about 1 in 5 or more, but we think about 1 in 5 people have dyslexia.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: What is the difference between a reading disability and dyslexia? We get that question a lot.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: A lot. So we have covered this one before, but always worth a refresher.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: So really, dyslexia is a learning disability.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: In reading.
[00:23:12] Speaker A: In reading there may be no difference at all. Okay. Those two terms can be used interchangeably.
Some children may miss an important window for development in their reading skills if they have not fallen too far behind with proper instruction, they can quote, unquote, catch up. Those students, we would not say have a disability. Right. Those are the students who intervene, intervene early and don't have those.
I don't know what to say. Lagging skills.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:23:53] Speaker A: Right. That's okay. They've. They have caught up. We got proper instruction in them and they do not have dyslexia.
But those students that we do intervene and we still. Right. We're still having those differences.
That is when we have dyslexia.
I think there is an underlying question there is dyslexia due to improper teaching. No, dyslexia is not correct. Reading problems can be exactly so.
Often though, in school, at least around where we live, which is in Wisconsin. Nicole and I live in southeastern Wisconsin. And in this, this state, often what happens at school is school will call this a specific learning disability in reading. Often it is not the school initiating the term. Dyslexia.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:24:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: And dyslexia is more of a medical based term.
Well, reading disability is more a school based language.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: And at the end of the day. Dyslexia is a learning disability in reading.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: Exactly. So it's okay. Interchangeable is okay here.
[00:25:25] Speaker B: How can I start to get help and where do I go to get help?
[00:25:28] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. That's a big one.
This has a lot of different routes.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: You can present your concerns to your child's pediatrician.
You may present this at school or find another professional organization who specializes in literacy.
That's what Nicole and I do. That's what we do here at Dyslexia Achievement Center. Often we are the people that parents are calling to help. So you can, you can contact a dyslexia center for, teach for testing some other people who could diagnose dyslexia. Neuropsychologists can diagnose dyslexia.
Often that is a really difficult low. If you are a parent who thinks you have a student who has dyslexia, neuropsych, while they can, often they have very, very long waiting lists.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: They do. And they look at everything. So the difference is we specialize in assessments with reading and they will look at everything with behavior adhd. They'll look at depression, anxiety. So they're doing a huge battery of tests that look at a little bit of everything.
[00:27:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. And so sometimes that very, very broad approach is not what's right for your student. If you are in a position where you might think there are multiple things going on with your child and you think there is maybe a more complex picture, then a neuropsych is probably the direction to go. But if you are a parent who is looking at your kid and their seems like all of these little red flags that you guys were talking about earlier or some. We're saying like two or three of these red flags are present, then you might want to consider a more specialized route. The other difference, often not always the other difference is a neuropsychologist. The price tag on going to see a neuropsychologist is going to be very hefty. You're going to wait a long time. It is going to be a very expensive report.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: And it takes a while because when we went to see the neuropsych, we interviewed with the neuropsych prior to us bringing our child in. So that was like an hour. And then a couple, like a month later we took our student in. And then about probably a month or two after we took them in, then we had a consultation.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: Via Zoom again. And then a month after that they mailed the report to us. So it's a long period of time, too.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. It's a lot. I mean, they say a NeuroPsych will spend eight to 10 hours just the testing pieces. So, like, that really actually doesn't include.
Sometimes they're. Sometimes there are multiple days, sometimes.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: Correct. So it depends on what they're looking at.
[00:29:04] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: We were there for, I think, seven hours. So, I mean, I think it just depends on what your student is showing, what tests that they want to make sure they get into. And they even said at the end that we would maybe come back for again for another test, just depending on what the scores were on the first battery test. So it can be a lengthy process, too.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right.
[00:29:34] Speaker B: But they are really good at giving you lots of resources and helping you find things to help support your child. So they're amazing. But just so you know, the differences of what it would look like.
[00:29:49] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. For our purposes, what we do here at our center is usually our testing takes around two hours. That's an average. And we really are looking at reading and writing specifically.
And our reports stay in those bounds.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
We may sometimes. Often I will do an assessment. And if there are certain behaviors displayed during an assessment or there's. There are some discrepancies between scores that really should be kind of on the same playing field, I may say to a family, I would suggest further testing.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:30:38] Speaker A: And I would refer them out to either a neuropsych or something else, depending.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: What you are finding.
[00:30:44] Speaker A: That's right. I mean, often what I am seeing just from anecdotal evidence and the statistics back me up. Often what I am seeing is a student that I suspect may also have adhd. And there also are centers that test just for adhd. You have to kind of know what you're looking for.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: But that is.
That's kind of an overview. Some very common questions.
[00:31:18] Speaker B: Yes, very much so. We'll probably do some more podcasts on questions that we get from parents, because we do get quite a few.
[00:31:25] Speaker A: Yeah. And this is a good call out to listeners, too. If you are listening to this and you feel like you have a question that you would like Nicole and I to answer, please, please reach out and ask us those questions. That's what we're here to do. Right. The goal of this podcast is to walk with parents and help bridge the gap between professionals and parents, because we're both.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: So what's beyond dyslexia for you today, Maggie?
[00:32:01] Speaker A: Oh, outside of dyslexia so, as we record this, it is just the beginning of November, and we today actually have my daughter's initial IEP meeting. So that is happening this afternoon. In real time. She is being evaluated for speech and language services. I believe she will qualify, but that is. That's kind of going on in our world. And in real time, I'm having to kind of explain to her what that might look like. And, you know, she's four, so in her. In her view of the world, she is excited to go play games with someone else, and that's perfectly fine, which is great.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: She's four.
[00:32:54] Speaker A: She's four. And she gets to talk to somebody uninterrupted. She'll be fine.
I am feeling just fine about that. But that is what's going on with us. What's going on with you?
[00:33:13] Speaker B: Well, I guess more of what's going on with Dyslexia Achievement center is we recently became a certified women's business for the sake to Wisconsin.
[00:33:21] Speaker A: Yay.
[00:33:23] Speaker B: So that was kind of. I thought it would be easy to apply, but really it wasn't.
[00:33:28] Speaker A: That was a long process, everybody.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: It was. So I am very happy to say that we are now.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: Yay. That's so exciting.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:37] Speaker A: That's so exciting. Congratulations. That was a.
That's a big accomplishment for you personally and for the business.
[00:33:45] Speaker B: So, yay.
[00:33:46] Speaker A: That's exciting. Exciting.
Well, everybody, thank you for listening. Please follow us on social media and reach out if you have any questions or would like us to discuss a topic. If you like our show, please be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast player. Write us a review. We want to hear what you have to say to us. This is how we reach more listeners. So the more reviews and, you know, likes and clicks we get, guys, that's what really helps us out, and that is what allows us to reach more people, which is what we're here to do. So thank you, everybody, for listening.
[00:34:26] Speaker B: Thank you.
